Pro or Anti OTSR?

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2Hostyl said:
Anyway, the question seems to be why do we have OTSRs at all. Well the simple answer is that an OTSR is an effective restraint system. It is also the restraint that Arrow chose for its corkscrew coasters. Why they chose it, I have no idea. And I dont think anyone outside of those offices at that time really knows either.

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During the Winter Solace at Knott's, Dana Morgan talked about the development process behind the original corkscrew. For the test runs, they used racing-style 5-point harnesses. From there, it's not hard to see where the OTSR came from. Just mold the shoulder belts with hard plastic, link the two at the bottom low enough to look like a lap belt, then mount from above, and voila, instant horsecollar. In theory, you should have something with the security of the 5-points, but easier to use.

The problem is no one in the past 20+ years or so has bothered to say "Hey, wait a minute" and evaluate whether that's what they actually got. When new companies started building their own rides, they just played Follow the Leader without questioning it. It's certainly not the first time such a thing's happened.

mike (more of a get-out-of-the-way type guy) *** This post was edited by moverell on 4/4/2001. ***

I'm suprised that one would think that escaping from an Intamin hyper train would be difficult. Again, you have to want to get out, but if I had a little room between my thighs and the bar I could slide in and out of the train. The seatbacks are not high enough to prevent sliding out the back. And the Premier bars, while making this extremely diffuclt could be done the same way (again, some involved premeditation is needed). But my arguement is that the same can be said for OTSRs. If you are "stapled" by any restraint, I doubt seriously anyone could get out.

Oh, and as far as PTC trains, well I almost ended up in Wild One's lap on Grizzly last weekend and the lapbar wasnt even that far up. (Aren't the B&M lapbars on Psyclone like the PTC bars). I would love to show that it could be done. But I stress that I think all the restraints are good when used properly, but can be defeated if premeditated.
jeremy

I would ride 'em with a little super glue on each butt cheek.


I don't think most parks would go for that idea, so I'll take what they have to offer and be happy there is such a thing as roller coasters.

Here is a link on roller coaster insurance and theme park insurance, it show's how involved insurance company's get.

http://www.bestreview.com/archives/1999-09/pccover.html

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Army rangers lead the way

I keep seeing stuff about parks needing to have OTSR's to make sure stupid, suicidal riders can't kill themselves, or stuff to that effect. Look, people, if someone wants to get hurt on a coaster they will get hurt, it's that simple. Saying OTSR's hold people in better is IMO a ridiculous argument -- I could easily be out of the Kumba's restraints within seconds if I wanted to and I have reason to suspect almost all B&M restraints are the same. Like GregLeg said, there are methods (which some of us have tested and perfected :)) that us enthusiasts use to get more airtime, less restraint, etc.

But on the Raging Bull or the MForce, not a chance -- there simply isn't room there to slip under or to the side of the lap bar. And there is room to put your arms in the air or just act like a freak without bothering those next to you. IMO loopers would be MUCH better if they allowed this kind of freedom to enjoy the ride.

Bottom line is this: Lap bars can be designed to keep people in the seat as good or better than OTSR's, and for those that don't want to stay in the seat there's not much we're going to do about it and we shouldn't be in the business of designing for the stupidest 1% of riders out there. NO restraint is foolproof; at some point the rider has to decide to be safe...

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super7 said:
"Friday, June 30, 1995 - At Worlds of Fun amusement park in Kansas City, Missouri, a 14-year-old girl died after sustaining a massive head injury in a 25-foot fall from the Timber Wolf roller coaster. The girl was reported to have been either standing or kneeling at the time of the accident."

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It's not our fault she thought she was in line for the EXT that was a standup that was in the spot that the Timber Wolf is currently standing. I mean she made an honest mistake. Nevermind that there is a HUGE sign over the queue that says Timber Wolf, and the fact that there is no longer corkscrews over the water. Hey let's just say she had an awesome "FINAL RIDE."

Morbid? Yes, but it's the truth.

D

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"Boomerang will be the only roller coaster in the Midwest that will propel its riders both forwards and backwards" - Dan Keller

If Intamin had gone with a Setpoint-style lap bar, with or without the safety belt, on their drop towers instead of the shoulder bars, I'm convinced Joshua Smurphat would still be alive today.
The center of mass for a seated rider is located just above the tailbone. THAT'
S the point where the body needs to be tied to the seat, not up around the shoulders. If you secure the upper body and fail to secure the lower body...which is exactly what happens with a typical shoulder bar...the passenger can submarine right out of the seat.

By the way, Dave, "centrifugal force" is absolutely a real force WHEN IT IS ACTING ON YOU. It is a ficticious force WHEN YOU ARE WATCHING IT HAPPEN. You observe centripetal acceleration. You experience centrifugal acceleration. Which is correct depends on your frame of reference.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Centrifugal force is not an inertia frame force, but it is a force. (Typically, though, it's actually centripetal)

You'll note: Schwartzkopf started with a lap bar, but he didn't do corkscrews.
Arrow started with OTSRs, and did corkscrews. I'm still not completely convinced that a lateral looper can be secured with just a bar, without seriously pinning the rider w/ dividers in the train itself.

Not because of normal ops, but because of a jam in a cork or a twist, where the rider is both looking up at the ground as well as hanging out sideways.

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Wolf said:
[iI'm still not completely convinced that a lateral looper can be secured with just a bar, without seriously pinning the rider w/ dividers in the train itself.

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Well, that depends on your definition of "pinned". I fully believe that the new Hypersonic restraints would be sufficient to hold you upside down, sideways, or even in an outside corkscrew (now THAT would be something to see ;) )

Yet I felt they were pretty roomy -- I certinly left myself room so as not to be stapled both times I rode it. Now, not everyone will agree with me on that, especially the patrons who couldn't ride. Which brings back up the argument of rider size. Restraints are going to have limits for the types of riders they can accomodate. This is true of lapbars, OTSRs, seatbelts, and even "hold onto the grabbar and pray for all your worth".

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--Greg

http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/

Yesterday, I found another argument against shoulder bars. I was riding the Rugrats Runaway Reptar Roller Coaster at Kings Island, a junior inverted coaster equipped with shoulder bars. That ride is designed to accommodate children and adults, but because it uses shoulder bars, it can't accommodate younger children (they'd come right out of the shoulder bar). But a more interesting problem exists for those kids who are barely big enough to ride. The RRRRC is the first coaster I've ever ridden where the ride operator had to tell a rider to keep his arms outside the car throughout the ride! A little kid behind a shoulder bar designed to accommodate an adult is too narrow to wrap his arms around the bar, and will tend instead to hold on to the center of the bottom portion of the shoulder bar. Of course, by doing this, the kid is almost totally unsecured, particularly if he is small enough to fit through the center of the bar.

I hadn't thought of that problem before, 'cause I hadn't seen kiddie rides with shoulder bars on them before...!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.