PKD Park Survey

Monday, February 14, 2005 11:07 PM
What about a Gerstlauer Jet Fighter? I'd thought it was a Vekoma Tilt Coaster, but any of the three would be neat to have so close to me.
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:19 AM
Looks like they give us some artwork of what TR:FF may look like...
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:21 AM
Rob Ascough - Impulse-ive makes good points. If they let people give suggestions from scratch, everyone would ask for Inverted 500 foot tall dueling dive machines through fire. They have simply come up with several suggestions that are within reason, and asked people to pick their favorites. While I see where you are comming from, I think what the park is doing is a good thing.
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:21 AM
Wow. Good idea but I can't imagine one of the none-coaster ideas winning. It was also a little long. I voted for top gun and commented to use B+M (I saw the pic but you never know). A B+M invert is just what this park could use...other than an Intamin hyper (I agree RavenTTD).

In the final comments box I congratulated them on the flight of fear restraint changes.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:38 AM
I love the surveys, I just don't know if they are actually great for the park, I mean, how many gp actually see this thing? Unless there is a huge link on the main PKD webpage, I can't imagine the normal parkgoer to take this survey.

But who knows, maybe all they want is feedback from the enthusiasts.

I do like the Top Gun thing though, I think KD could use a good ride like that.

Josh *** Edited 2/15/2005 11:38:50 AM UTC by J Bird***

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:54 AM

Word said:
If they let people give suggestions from scratch, everyone would ask for Inverted 500 foot tall dueling dive machines through fire.

No, only a bunch of silly enthusiasts are going to ask for that. The majority of people would probably list some ideas of their own that may be completely different from what the park thinks people want.

If you give a person ten different kinds of steaks to choose from, they'll probably pick one. But that doesn't help if they wanted a chicken dinner in the first place.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:38 AM
... which are all outside of the park's budget, construction/design abilities or master plans for the park, otherwise, they would have thought of them in the first place.

If you wanted chicken and the entire menu was steak, you'd probably go to another restaurant ... sorry Rob, they're not going to rebuild the Idora Wildcat, or whatever other classic wooden coaster you and probably others would suggest, even if you asked. It's not flashy, it's not sensory overload, and most of all, wasn't Paramount burned big time by their last wooden coaster project (SoB)? After that disaster, I'd be surprised if Paramount built a wooden coaster for many years ...

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:47 AM
There was a piece in First Drop a while back about the coaster that everyone is thinking is a Vekoma Tilt Coaster.

The track is shaped like a large curved L. It is pivoted at the centre point so when loading the track would look like _|, once lifting starts it would raise the part with the train on to the vertical like so |_, lining the now low point of the track with the rest of the circuit. The train would then be released to complete the circuit. In other words, what was the station track when you boarded has now become the top of the first drop.

Hope that helps. I'll try to find the info later but I'm pretty sure it in one of the IAAPA issues.


*** Edited 2/15/2005 2:49:23 PM UTC by invy***

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:50 AM
Who's the manufacturer? Just curious ...
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:58 AM
I'm not sure Brett, can't recall as it was a couple of years ago I reckon. I'll have a trawl through my FD collection...

*edit* Found it! It was a Chance Morgan design, shown at IAAPA in 2002. Says the rest of the ride would be very twisted with a new design of train to negotiate it. Sounds like it could be fun.


*** Edited 2/15/2005 3:16:53 PM UTC by invy***

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:09 AM
Who the hell said I wanted the Idora Wildcat rebuilt at PKD, Brett? If I wanted the Wildcat rebuilt, I certainly wouldn't suggest it be at a Paramount park. They didn't seem to be too adept at taking care of an out-and-back racing coaster so I'm definitely unsure of their ability to care for a vicious 1920's twister.

I'm sure that all of Paramount's suggested ideas would work well within the limitations of their master plan for the park, and that's fine. All I'm saying is that I'm sick of hearing people say that Paramount parks do nothing more than respond to their guests' comments because that's not the case when the comments they can make have already been pre-selected.

I work in marketing, and if you want true results, multiple choice is not the way to go.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:18 AM
I was just using it as an example - same way I'd push for a launcher, you'd push for a "classic" wooden coaster.

But I think that Paramount has done an excellent job of creating a survey that allows people to give them opinions, but within reason. Think about most of the newbies to this site, that's what most of the GP out there that would care enough to fill out that survey is like, and they would all suggest the 500 ft double inverted standup twister tilt mega dive launch LIM blah blah happy coaster, if they even took the time to think up a creative ride they'd like to see. This way, the creativity's done, all you have to do is select the one that appeals to you most. Their sample size would be so much less if it required the work of creating your own ride, it'd probably make the survey data irrelevant. 99.9% of people aren't going to take the time to come up with their own ride from scratch to propose for the park.

But, if you do have specific ideas and happen to fall within that 0.1% (which I would guess all participate on this site!) that's why the boxes are on each page for comments. You could suggest that they modify one of their ideas to something else, or even give them something completely different at the end. That's where the variability comes in. But, so that they can capture a few more people, they give them the pre-made choices that fit right in with their plans.

Again, you work in marketing, so professionally, I realize you have more experience, but my limited exposure, and as a "consumer", I think it's an excellent survey, very well done (grammar and spelling aside) and allows for a lot of varied opinions - key word, a lot.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:10 PM
^Exactly my point in why I sent in comments at the end of the survey to change the top gun invert to a floorless,pointing out the existance of volcano.

I went so far as to describe the ride as a floorless above rail looping coaster similar to Medusa at SFGRADV so they'd get at least an insight into the type of ride I was suggesting to be designed to center around that particular theme.

Hopefully it'll pay off although I'd certainly ride the invert if it gets built as well.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:30 PM
That's something i thought was strange too. They already have an inverted/suspended coaster in volcano, but then again they have a sit down looper in anaconda. If they got a floorless I think it would decrease anaconda ridership more than an invert would decrease volcano's.
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:42 PM
Normally, I would push for a classic wood coaster. But believe it or not, I think that PKD has enough wood coasters and my suggestion to them would be to invest some money in Grizzly, Hurler and, most importantly, Rebel Yell. Just as I would suggest that Great Adventure invest some money in Rolling Thunder before attempting another wood coaster.

I can understand why a survey like this works on a number of levels- my problem is that the survey asks people to vote on attractions with a common theme: movies. The park doesn't take into much consideration that not all guests are looking for ultra-expensive, high-profile rides themed to Italian Job, Tomb Raider and a bunch of other movies that are either too old for people to care about or movies that people didn't care much for in the first place.

It's nice that Paramount gives you the option to add your own comments and suggestions but in the end, the company is really polling people on one kind of capital expenditure when in fact that are many alternatives out there. It's great that guests are playing an integral role in which "blockbuster" attraction gets built but is a blockbuster attraction what people were asking for? Who's to say?

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:53 PM
Well Rob, remember that Paramount DID make a public announcement that they were really going to *cinemize* their parks...this is the natural outcome of that...

But I like your suggestion better, the wood at PKD is plentiful enough, just needs more LOVE...:)

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:55 PM
None of the wood at PKD is terrible (as some would lead you to believe) but I think that all of those coasters (except for the Fairly Odd Scooby thing) could be so much better with just a tad more TLC. Rebel Yell should be an airtime machine!
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:52 PM
I think they're also trying to guage interest in these movies and themes though, as you notice there's a question about if you saw the movies, if you're interested in the subject, etc.

Also, I thought the question at the very end about your preferred balance of thrills to theme was a good question.

The only real problem I had with the survey was the constant claim that they could make the ride the best of it's kind and unlike anything else anywhere, ever, when half of their rides were clones from other Paramount parks anyway?

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 5:58 PM
That may be true Brett but remember the GP doesn't know that there's a clone of DZ or FOF at another park in the usa....odds are they just visit the park closest to them on a regular basis just as with SF when the topic of cloning comes up.

On the subject of theming:is it really all that important any way? I mean you aren't able to see much scenery while moving at 50 plus MPH,but it certainly helps with the wait in line to have a themed queue to go along with the attraction you're about to ride.

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:48 PM
Out of all the options, the waterpark re-theme appealed to me the least. Don't get me wrong, I like going to waterparks, but, I feel that Waterworks is sufficient enough. PKD needs flats badly, so I'd definitely like to see the Giant Frisbee built in the near future.

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