Pittsburgh area man organizes rally for Geauga Lake's Big Dipper

And wouldn't he have closed GL a few years earlier instead of pumping money into it?

I wouldn't necessarily refer to it as "pumping" money. Sure, they built a new waterpark, but that's operating. Just playing devil's advocate.

I have to disagree with the fact that money was pumped into GL. A new waterpark was constructed but it can be argued that was a waste of money since a relatively new waterpark already existed on the property. If anything, money was removed from the park in the form of major roller coasters that were sent to other parks (Steel Venom and X-Flight). What did the actual park get? A Corn Hole game?

I'm a Corn Hole fan:

Get the bags in the circle

and you just might win.

"its still a business"...overused

Frequently uttered
does not necessarily
make it incorrect.

Random insertion
of off topic poetry
will not save this thread

Nothing new was added to the ride side during Cedar Fairs ownership except some new signs, a few shows, a basketball game, and the ever popular Corn Hole game. Nothing that shows tons of money was dumped into the ride side. However, many rides were removed during Cedar Fair ownership, Steel Venom, X-Flight, Mr. Hyde's Nasty Fall, The Monorail, and Raging Wolf Bobs which did not run most of the last season due to an “accident”. That’s five rides removed from the park and nothing added! How does that show that CF tried or even wanted GL to succeed?

I don’t buy the argument that if CF wanted to they would have “found a way to make it work and make money for decades”, “get over it” and “it’s a business” aren’t good enough responses from a person I know can debate better than that.

Since statements here aren’t good enough and usually require some form of facts to back them up I will use Waldameer Park in Pa as one example. This park is only 1.5 hours to the east, has half the rides GL ever had, and it did close to a million in guests last season. Geauga Lake when run by Funtime was doing a million guests with much less then it had when CF took over. SFWoA was doing well over 2 million guests during its last season 3 million during it peak.

Here is my problem, how Cedar Fair, who has done so well with other parks, could not make GL a profitable park especially with the reduced overhead of five less rides and one that could only sustain “700k guests”, is beyond comprehension. As a stock holder and part owner of CF I know I would want a lot of answers.

Haven't we been over this a thousand times? What did adding rides do for Six Flags? It gave them a one year boost followed by years of decline. Putting money into the water park was not only the right move, it's the only thing that allows it to exist at all, in any form.

The great irony is that you pull out the notion that, "Well it worked for park whatever," and it's that very notion that can be attributed to every failure or setback that Cedar Fair has encountered since they started acquiring parks. There is no one size fits all in business, and your suggestion that throwing capital into a business that's already too big for its market is the worst possible advice.

True, adding a bunch of rides in a single season didn't lead to long-term success as a Six Flags park, but I don't think pulling out the rides without adding anything new was the way to go, either. What was wrong with trying a plan that split the difference?

Putting in rides GRADUALLY is the only successful way to grow an existing park. "Ride dumping" like SFWoA is guaranteed (IMO) to create a one-year spike followed by customers saying "we got nothing AGAIN this year". Where's BatwingFan when I need him to prove my point? ;)

The market couldn't support a big park in the long haul. Rides cost money to operate, and it's particularly wasteful when these rides sit there idle or run empty because the attendance won't support it.

I feel like we're having 2007 all over again.

^Agreed that the market had a limit...but wouldn't it have been *way* cheaper to find that out by adding one major ride at a time until you past saturation-point? Did CP's even attendance drop in any noticeable way during the initial blow-out season at SFWoA?

Um, wasn't that in 2000 when CP got Millennium Force and Kings Island got Son of Beast? I'm guessing all three parks got a boost that year.

Getting back to the main question of the thread -- can BD be saved on site, and if so, how -- I really like the idea of a mixed used district built around the ride. Some shopping, maybe a theater and an art gallery or two, a handful of restaurants. Some sort of FEC would practically be a must, to help pull the coaster into the rest of the development.

Maybe the nucleus of a new amusement park could spring up out of the ashes of the old, a la Coney Island? I'm thinking of something relatively small scale, perhaps with a dozen or so rides, with say six kiddie rides, four flats, maybe even a junior woodie and a mouse.

I truly do think that the area could support a park of that size, especially if it were enmeshed in the mixed-used district I envision. Such a park might even acquire a symbiotic relationship with Wildwater Kingdom across the lake, much as GL and Sea World did but on a smaller scale.

How about an aquarium? That would be a perfect, and indeed ironic, partner for the district.

The two main problems to this idea are (1) finding potential investors and tenants for the district, especially given the recession, and (2) convincing Cedar Fair to sell a smaller parcel than it has indicated it is willing to do.

On the other hand, the economy is approaching if not already at the bottom of the recession. The bottom of a recession is the same thing as the beginning of a recovery, which is a good time to invest in commercial developments like this.

When discussing the years that Six Flags owned the park -- from the "big year of coasters" thru to the sale to Cedar Fair -- in my opinion one needs to also consider customer satisfaction, or rather lack of it. Sure, adding a bunch of new rides is nice but when the guest experience is ruined and people feel they are not getting value for their money you end up with bad word of mouth and a lack of repeat business.

As many of the US car manufacturers are finding out a bad opinion is easily gained but it takes many years to shed one. I feel Geauga failed to overcome the same problem.

You're right, and that's why I believe an amusement park could work there if done right. If Geauga Lake enjoyed record attendance during a season when the two other major Ohio parks added enormous roller coasters, that tells me the interest is there. It's not like millions of people crawl out of the woodwork and suddenly disappear, never to be heard from again. Perhaps people wanted to patronize the park but had a lousy experience and found it hard to do so? If the park created a memorable experience, perhaps those millions of people would have continued visiting in subsequent years?

For the record I don't buy into any of the conspiracy theories. To me its like buying a used car you're told is reliable only to find out it's a lemon. How long to you look for fixes before you realize you still have a lemon and junk it?

As nice as it would be for Big Dipper being part of a mixed use area I just don't buy it. When we're talking about something along the lines of Belmont Park/Mission Beach you need to understand that there are a bunch of things that Belmont Park has going for it including: location, access, climate, and most importantly attendance.

I loved Big Dipper. I wish it could be saved, but I don't think it can be done. Not in this area, not in this climate, not when people are fleeing the area left and right. I will eat my own words if I'm proven wrong but I just don't see it happening. There was a time when Northern Ohio's economy could support several parks in the area, but one by one they have closed down. When Sea World went away, so did GL.

I know we've been through this a million times and I respect what the group is trying to do. But I would bet money on seeing a relocation / recreation over operating it at its current site as it is.

~Rob

Remember it was CF who finished off Sea World as they didn’t think it was necessary and they lacked the staff and expertise to handle animals. Although you are right, SWO and GL needed each other to survive. It was Funtime who brought SW into that location for a reason.

As far as a Belmont Park/Mission Beach I certainly think there is the clientele for that type of attraction here, and it too could be complimented by WWK. It already has the location and access. Lower cost family entertainment such as that would be perfect given today’s economy. I believe if the park was around last season in some form it would have seen record attendance. As far as climate, we know that the rides could not operate here all season. Indoor facilities would also be available in addition to ice skating and other winter activities. I think that if someone came up with a great plan and the money it would definitely work, only time will tell.

Rob is right. Location is everything, and Northeast Ohio is a crappy location. For pretty much anything right now.