Pittsburgh area man organizes rally for Geauga Lake's Big Dipper

Rob Ascough said:

Sorry, I'm not buying that, because I don't think anyone around here is saying that the loss of an amusement park or a particular ride is on the same level as the loss of a loved one.

Well, it was my understanding that you opened the door to comparing the loss of a coaster with the loss of a person with your point about mourning JFK and MLK, Jr. Only you can say if you meant that mourning a loss of a person is as valid as mourning the loss of a coaster.

But I'm pretty sure there's no denying these two statements:

I, for one, have fallen in love with a few coasters in my life. If they were to be closed and/or demolished, I would really feel just about the same sense of loss that I would feel if a good friend had died.

I don't think we can stay away from those comparisons Carrie, sorry. Especially since there are so many memories associated with loved ones, living and passed, that have emanated from that park and others.

Now if you would place a coaster like this as a stand alone ride, with no other support structure, how much would tickets cost?

*Disclaimer, this was thrown together with no research, not even a Google search. Just numbers I pulled out of my head.*

You have to take into account paying staff, including maintenance staff who are more expensive than minimum wage ride hosts, and of course the ongoing maintenance costs. And since this is an older wooden coaster I am sure those costs are not cheap.

With 2 Maintenance people making $30,000 a year
With 5 Ride Ops making $7.50 an hour for 6 months
With a Manager to handle expenses and other items at $35,000 a year
And lets say maintence expenses at $25,000 a year (inlcuding new wood when needed)
Oh and we can't forget lease, and power. And health codes would require bathrooms so you have water also, lets just round all that up to $500 a month for the 6 months they are open and $250 for the months they are closed.
Thats $126,000 a year operating costs and that does not take into account loan payments, or making a profit.

So at $126,000 a year and 6 months of operating per year lets break that down.

$21,000 a month
$700 a day (averaging out to 30 days)
at $6 per ride
Thats 117 rides needed per day.

So is that workable or not?

Carrie, you are off a little bit.

Quote 1. By using the MLK analogy, Rob was simply making the point that you can appreciate something without being directly involved with it.

Quote 2. Can't argue this one : )

Quote 3. This comment was not comparing the life of a human to the life of a roller coaster. Rather the memory of a human through the life of a park.

Well, since it was my quote (#2), I feel that I should go a little further.

When I see a dilapidated park, abandoned and overgrown, I get very sad. I imagine what wonderful, magical memories were created there. I wonder if that had been a park that I had visited frequently and made many good memories at, would I feel an even greater sadness. It is because of my love for amusement parks and roller coasters that I can understand why I feel this way.

How about I tell a true story. A few years ago, I moved back to the town that I grew up. Every time I drove past the old house that I used to live in, I would get pretty excited. It looked pretty much the same as it always had, except for a new carport in the back and a newly built bank where the backyard used to be.

I spent the best and worst days of my childhood in that old house. I'd tell everyone who use to have anything to do with the house that I drove past it, and then we would reminisce about how much we love that house. I dreamed that someday, I would see a "For sale" sign in the yard, and I would buy it.

Last Summer, I drove past it, like I normally would, and it was gone. The bank that was built near it had bought the property just to demolish it and build a second entrance. I was devastated. I pulled the car over, and cried.

I felt as if a good friend had died.

As offended as one may feel about this subject, I lived it, and I understand it. I'm a little offended that someone would find my feelings offensive.

It would sound silly if a basketball enthusiast felt a strong sense of loss if his old, childhood basketball popped and fell to the bottom of a very deep lake, but who am I to say how he should feel?

I don't even care about Big Dipper or Geauga Lake, by the way. I understand why other may feel the way they do though, and I respect that.

Hate to sound trite and cliche here, but all of this is just solidifying the old adage that all good things must come to an end. Sure, it sucks that something you have so many fond memories of is gone/going away, but hey - at least you got to experience it, and now you have a story to tell.

Don't so much think of it as something you'll never be able to do again, rather something that you've done, that future generations will only wish they are able to experience. :)

Carrie M. said:
Well, it was my understanding that you opened the door to comparing the loss of a coaster with the loss of a person with your point about mourning JFK and MLK, Jr. Only you can say if you meant that mourning a loss of a person is as valid as mourning the loss of a coaster.

Sort of. What I'm saying is that it's perfectly valid to mourn the loss of whatever means something to you. Relatives, buildings, amusement parks... what difference does it make? I don't understand how mourning the loss of a roller coaster is insulting to you, or Jeff's mother-in-law, or anyone who lost a loved one in the past.

Yeah, it's not. I'm not offended by people being sad over the coaster and can even understand it when I try to think about it from another perspective. Really.

What I don't really understand is referring to it as mourning, though. For the most part, at least in its traditional sense, mourning is used to describe the grieving of a death. And a roller coaster is not a living thing and therefore can't die.

I get the emotion. And when I said in my original post that I mean no disrespect to anyone, I really do not mean any disrespect. But I think there's a difference between feeling strong emotion toward something you enjoyed that you no longer have and mourning, particularly the mourning of a person who has passed away.

The rest of it, honestly, was just some raw emotion that came out in an inappropriate time. I wish I could go back and edit that post, but it's way too late now. Sometimes you put stuff out there and it just has to stay out there. :)

Definition of mourn:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mourn

Not limited to people. Although obviously there's a huge difference between losing one's mother and an amusement park (or any other inanimate object). If they even exist on the same spectrum, the first one is a '100' and the other probably ranks around a '0.00001', if that.

Yep, that's why I used the phrase "at least in its traditional sense". I was hoping to avoid the need to post the definition of the word. I was going for a conceptual explanation of my perspective, rather than a clinical one.

RatherGoodBear said:

Ensign Smith said:
You know, I really hate where this thread has gone.

I don't. In fact, I love it. I was getting bored with the typical...

"Diamondback-- great ride."

"Yeah, I liked it too."

"Looks great. Can't wait to ride it."

Snooze.

All I have to say is that if people want to dish it out in a thread like this, they better be willing to take it too. If not, hit the back button and make sure the turnstile doesn't hit you in a sensitive area on your way down the exit ramp.

Agreed.

DiamondBack, though probably a very nice coaster, probably won't last 20-30 years like many of the woodies we've lost. I think of Villain when i say this as the same things were said about that coaster and it only lasted what, seven years?

Personally, i'd like the see the Big Dipper end up at Conneaut Lake. It'd be a perfect fit fot that place. (yeah, i know, keep dreaming boy....)

If Dipper doesn’t stay on site it makes no sense to move it or reconstruct it. There is very little of the actual ride that could be moved and reconstructing it makes little sense when the money could go towards a new one from GCI or GG.

There were many options discussed from mixed use development to family fun centers to county/government owned. Examples being Kemah boardwalk, Belmont park, Arnold Park, Carousel Gardens, etc. We have no idea what plan if any will work nor are we endorsing any plan at this point, but at least we can say we tried.

Is that based on your expert experience moving roller coasters?

I am not an expert on coasters as one would think by my screen name, but since I was asked by the resident expert on everthing I am going to guess he is. My statement was based from speaking with several actual experts on coaster construction, and I will add that these experts were not "enthusiasts who think they are experts".

Coasterdad, don't you know that you have to show paperwork and cite sources in order for anyone to take you seriously around here? How dare you speak of something you might know about without first proving why you're in a position to do so?

Your sarcasm is boring and doesn't add anything, Rob.

Why does Dipper have to stay put? There's a ride in PA and another in Florida that seemed to do OK after being moved.

Not surprisingly, the notion that it can't be moved coincides well with the agenda of people who were hell bent on getting the property on the cheap and representing their own interests while pretending to represent a certain enthusiast club. Perhaps some day, someone will connect the dots. I think you've been played.

Are you suggesting there's a conspiracy? Oh, sweet irony.

I deemed sarcasm necessary because I think it's absolutely absurd that someone can't so much as make a statement around here without first having to furnish some kind of proof that they are adequately educated to make a statement. No wonder industry people stay away from this place. If I knew something, I sure as hell wouldn't come here to talk about it. Anyway, sorry to have bored you. Next time I'll try to make my sarcasm a little more entertaining.

I'm not saying it would be impossible to move the Dipper but the agenda seems to be to keep the ride in Aurora, so what do you expect to be said? And if preserving the original ride experience is one of the goals, then keeping the ride in Aurora would be necessary. Certain aspects of the ride like the trains wouldn't have to be altered like they would if the ride were relocated and subject to guidelines pertaining to new construction. The ride might also be reprofiled if it were relocated, which would further dillute the original ride experience. And as is the case with most wood roller coasters, much of the structure and track might not survive a move, and that could make relocation prohibitively expensive for a company without deep pockets.

Rob Ascough said:
I think it's absolutely absurd that someone can't so much as make a statement around here without first having to furnish some kind of proof that they are adequately educated to make a statement. No wonder industry people stay away from this place.

Nonsense. If you make a claim like, "It can't be moved," with no reasoning or explanation, people are going to call you out.

And your jab about "industry people," seriously? Now you've surveyed them? I'd like to think the "industry people" that I call friends and score tickets for me do so because of this site, not in spite of it. Can you even get through one post without making it about what a douche I am or how the site sucks? If you dislike it or me so much, do everyone a favor and stop posting.

I have nothing against the site. It's a great community filled with great people with great opinions and ideas. You're the one that always insists on either painting yourself as the victim or passing yourself off as the one and only authority when it comes to everything. I'm just trying to have a conversation about an amusement park and can't help but point out BS when I smell BS.

Trust me, I'm satisfied with my life and don't wake up thinking of ways to point out how you might be a douche.

It has been awesome here since you disappeared, and you've done nothing but inject toxicity since you came back. I didn't claim to be an authority on anything, but I will challenge anyone who makes unqualified statements. That's what we do on the Internet. All you do is respond with sarcasm and personal attacks, and I'm tired of it already.

I disagree with 90% of what Mike has to say, but at least he engages the conversation in a way that mostly sticks to the topic without getting personal. You could learn a lot by reading his posts.

Nice backpedal, too, about the quality of the site.