Other companies contacted to build MF

Morgan Manufacturing has simply built the rides parks have asked them to. Proof of this is Phantoms Revenge.
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Yet another coaster-craving yuppie

It makes you wonder if B&M had wanted to go that tall and do the ride, how would the layout have changed? Unless B&M decided to devlop their own magnetic brakes, the ride would have been longer or one very long brake run
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Assistant Webmaster
Kennywood Park Unlimited
http://www.kpunlimited.com

I think a big reason SD cost twice as much as MF is because it has to be reinforced against earthquakes. Same reason Ghost Rider cost much more then similar sized woodies. I don't think cost was the main reason for Intamin over B&M.
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Bob M.

As I stated before, I am sure cost was not an issue. But I am curious too see if maybe the weight and design of the track had alot to do with why Intamin was chosen. Possibly, Intamin's track is much lighter and can can stand up to strong winds better than a typical B&M? Of course this is just speculation.

Sounds to me like some of you are putting way too much thought into it. I doubt that coaster deals, track design or cost had anything to do with any of it.

CP decided they wanted to go over 300 feet. B&M didn't want to try. Morgan passed for whatever reason (development of Steel Dragon may be the issue). Intamin was willing to work with CP and develop the necessary technology to make it happen.

I'd be willing to bet the story is no more glamourous than that.

Anyone know if they asked Arrow?

ok a couple of things here.

1. I doubt that B&M didn't want to go over 300 ft. Intamin went much over 300 just a few years ago with Superman: The Escape. so we all knew that going over 300 ft. isn't impossible. seeing as how B&M and Intamin were once one and the same I doubt that B&M refused to make a coaster over 300 ft.

2. one factor that I'm sure went into the decision is the angle of the lift hill. Intamin changed their lift system in order to go steeper and faster. B&M have gone just as steep as Intamin before, though. I believe that Oblivion and G5 are at the same angle that MF is. speed is the only other issue here then. but that could have been resolved with a tire lift hill as mentioned before. just speed up the rites to a point where the lift hill is short, but it doesn't become a launched ride (btw a launched giga coaster sounds insane. imagine being shot at 40mph over the crest of that first hill!)

3. cost was most definatly a factor. CF may be willing to dish out massive amounts of money for a ride, but they aren't stupid. if they can get a similar coaster for cheaper then they'll go for the less expensive coaster. its just smart business. the reason they went with B&M for Mantis and Raptor is because stand-ups are no longer being made by another company(correct me if I'm wrong) and the only other major designer of inverteds was Vekoma, but Vekoma wouldn't be able to provide CF with the design that they wanted.

so why did they pick Intamin? probably because of cost and design. if you look at MF's design, you'll notice that there isn't much that's special about it(read the rest before flaming me for that comment). it's basically a series of drops and turns along a fairly simple layout. B&M may have wanted to do a bunch of things. look at their hypers. they all twist and turn and go all over the place(with AC as somewhat of an exception). CP may not have had the room or the money to allow B&M do that.

in any case, Intamin did it, B&M didn't, and none of us know the reasons.

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Knott's Berry Farm Cuba ~South Park

Not to offend anyone but... Why does anyone care? Is MF a awesome, extreme, intense, airtime filled ride! Yes. Do we enjoy it? Yes! At least I know I do.

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"Oncoming riders, please stand behind the red safety line and wait for the train to come to a complete stop."
-Phantom's Revenge Laps:12-

B&M may have wanted to do a bunch of things. look at their hypers. they all twist and turn and go all over the place(with AC as somewhat of an exception). CP may not have had the room or the money to allow B&M do that.

Not quite. The B&M hypers for the most part do practically nothing. They just go up and down. Atleast Nitro and AC do. I think the reason CP went with Intamin is because they had experience with huge structures. Whether it's a drop tower or coaster they had experience with practically every ride structure, weather, and land formation.

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"This time I think ... I think it's ... it's going to work!" - Dr.Bruce Banner

No matter how much you (we) think you know, you're not Cedar Point, Intamin, or B&M. I'm sure there were many small reasons which made them finally pick Intamin to build MF which none of us will ever know.:)

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George Dubya: A Master in the art of "Golfery"
http://www.i-mockery.com/visionary/vacationerchief.asp

...It's an interesting topic to talk about. The concept of Millennium Force's design phase if pretty cool to me.

coasterjedi has some very valid and logical points.

The track on MF is not only super stronger, it easily lets air pass through, reducing the swaying factor. It's square track looks a lot like the re-enforcing steel below suspended bridges such as the Golden Gate to reduce swaying, and also makes the bridge stronger.

But those of you that say money wasn't one of the deciding factors have to look at it at a business point of view. The return on investment would be much harder to make up with a 30-35 million dollar coaster than a 25 million dollar one.

As for more braking area, I think that the way MF is set up now, there is more than enough room for a brake run. You have to remember that B&M's trains are 4 across and only 8 long...versus 9 cars with 2 rows each that the Intamin hyper trains have. This would significanly reduce the length of both trains, and would increase the length of the brake run significantly.

In fact, I think this may have been another factor for choosing Intamin. Each seat is very open, and makes the rider feel much more vulnerable, thus adding to the excitement. In a B&M train, the 2 middle riders in each row don't have nearly the open-ness of the outside riders, or of any Intamin hyper train.

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Mayday - Memorial Day Weekend - Nonpoint, Nickelback, Oleander, Staind
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CPgenius said:
"
In fact, I think this may have been another factor for choosing Intamin. Each seat is very open, and makes the rider feel much more vulnerable, thus adding to the excitement. In a B&M train, the 2 middle riders in each row don't have nearly the open-ness of the outside riders, or of any Intamin hyper train.

From what I have seen in pictures of B&M hypers the trains look open to me. They only have that little lap bar and there are no sides(correct me if i'm wrong). I have been on a Intamin hyper(SROS) and the trains are open. The people in the middle might not be able to look over the edge but still there really isn't much there either.
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"Roller Coaster favorite ride , let me kiss you one last time" Blink 182

Yeah the outsides are open, but the inside riders would feel less vulnerable, and therefore, less extreme.

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Mayday - Memorial Day Weekend - Nonpoint, Nickelback, Oleander, Staind
Ozzfest - June 8 - Papa Roach, Linkin Park, Disturbed, Black Sabbath
Awake Tour- June 15 - Darwin's Waiting Room, Puddle of Mudd, Deftones, Godsmack

Jeff or the mods, any info on this topic?? All we keep getting is speculation. Any facts??

MF was designed my Stengal, who also desings for B&M. So if it was a Beemer, I think it would have a very similar design. CP tells what they wan't not the manufacture. Unless it's a Vekoma!

I know from experience with B & M hypers (Raging Bull) that the cars are open. I have sat both in the middle and on the edge, and both locations are very thrilling. I do not know why, nor do I care CP picked Intamin over B & M, all I know is that MF looks like an extremely cool coaster that I can not wait to ride! I wish I was lucky enough to live close enough to a world class park like CP. So can we please retire this post, it doesn't matter, whats done is done, and CP got a great coaster out of the deal.
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No, no official word because the internal dealing between parks and manufacturers is just that, internal. I have it on pretty good authority that B&M did not want to bid, and that could be from the height or some factor that involves the height (weight of the chain, unproven design at that height, wheel wear, etc.). I don't know that Morgan has the capability to to accomodate two huge manufacturing processes like that, so I think it's reasonalbe to assume they wouldn't get involved.

One might also speculate that it wouldn't make as much business sense for B&M to have taken on the project. Let's face it, I doubt very much that B&M spends nearly as much on R&D as they used to, because all of their rides are made of tried and true engineering. The Force required some innovation with the lift system and wheels.

(As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised if Intamin was working on these anyway, because it just makes sense from a reliabilty standpoint, thus the use of the cable lift on Expedition GeForce.)

Of course, cost may very well have been one of the biggest factors. Sure, you could argue that Intamin has experience in big rides, but Cedar Point has experience with poorly performing Intamin rides (Demon Drop, Disaster Transport). That just leaves the dollar figure.

Again, this is just baseless speculation on my part.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

...Demon Drop? I take it you mean downtime...?

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Mayday - Memorial Day Weekend - Nonpoint, Nickelback, Oleander, Staind
Ozzfest - June 8 - Papa Roach, Linkin Park, Disturbed, Black Sabbath
Awake Tour- June 15 - Darwin's Waiting Room, Puddle of Mudd, Deftones, Godsmack

Cost: Anyone who thinks this wasn't a factor in MF has never worked in a large business where the cost and benefit of everything is analysed.

Windage: The frame work type of construction used for MF may have more windage than B&M's box sections rather than less.

Other Commitments: While this was mentioned in connection with Morgan, it was not mentioned for B&M. They may have simply not had the resources available at the time to handle the job and were smart enough to not do it. Vekoma this year has shoen us what can happen when you overextend yourself.

Jim Fisher said:
Cost: Anyone who thinks this wasn't a factor in MF has never worked in a large business where the cost and benefit of everything is analysed.

When I say cost is not the issue, what I am referring to is that Cedar Point was not going to contract the company with the least expensive offer, unless it had all the components they were looking for. Cedar Point knows that if they put in a quality ride, they will bring in the guests and get their return. I personally work in a large company that processes medical units(MRI, CT, X-ray), so I do understand that all costs are analyzed. Please don't make statements that put all people into one category. I understand that cost is always an issue with any investment, but what I am trying to say is if Cedar Point was looking for the least expensive way to do things, they would not be voted the best park year after year. They understand that you need to pay more to get more. Obviously I don't talk to Dick Kinzel on a daily basis, but judging from CP's past investmens, they were more concerned with getting a quality, exciting ride that would bring in the crowds. And obviously, they have been doing it the best all along. I hope you now inderstand my point:)