Not So SECRET!!!!!!!!!
Lord Gonchar said:
Club members have been getting more from the start. That's the point - pay to join and get more in return.
Every thing you mentioned of were little extras. Sure, the club members had some perks that freeloaders such as myself did not have... but the perks on line were behind the scenes. They could do all of the nifty little things with color... they could update track records... they could use the site with out the rude interuptions of pop ups. However, the main focus for many were the forums, and in those forums, we were all one big happy disfunctional family so to speak... club members and non members alike. None of those little behind the scenes extras divided the users into two different groups of people. Now however, the "SECRET" forums serve to do this... an "us" -vs- "them" climate.
As far as "club events"... Everyone could still visit those parks during the season... just not during the events, so the events, not parks that the events were at, were exclusive. We could all still go and partake of those parks at other times. As for Holiday World and the discount admission... people could still go if they were not club members, just that they would have to pay a higher rate. Also, precious little good that discount did those who live 15 hours away and do not get to Holiday world on a regular basis (if ever).
Like I said, I am a free loader here... a user of the boards, but a "non member" in the club. I was for a while a few years ago, but all I got out of it was a little paper card and the ability to update an on line track record which I already do in Excel, so I never renewed after one year (and my life still felt fullfilled).
I can live with the pop ups... and the color scheme doesn't bother me, and while it might be a bit annoying to know that there are "SECRET" conversations going on, I think I can live with it. The money I save I can put toward a Q-bot next year at Great Adventure which will a) get me on the coasters quicker and b) give "Club Members" who paid for the special privlige (sp) of having their own exclusive forums something to talk about in yet another "It's not fair how they can pay for the speical Privlige (sp) of cutting in front of the line" thread.
*** Edited 11/6/2007 8:07:12 PM UTC by SLFAKE***
Lord Gonchar said:
Here's the thing. Why is this the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak?
Because the bulk of your 29,134 registered members come here for one thing and one thing only--to participate in the discussion forums. Most are willing to tolerate the ads, don't attend the events, could care less about changing colors, and probably get a HW discount from another club they belong to.
But now, all of sudden, part of the discussion is getting taken away. It's perceived as elitist, as if those who haven't coughed up the $20.00 don't have anything worthy to say. You've kind of alienated the bulk of your registered members. You know--the ones who help fund this board by generating ad revenue.
Seems so weird to me.
Seems so understandable to me.
*** Edited 11/6/2007 8:45:30 PM UTC by Jeffrey Seifert***
(Or maybe I'm just a sucker for sarcastic humor.)
In all seriousness, I do agree with Tambo. It's emotional (I know this violates Gonch's almighty dollar theory, but sometimes it's the emotion that FEEDS the dollar, see?) Those left out of the secret are left with two options... a) figure out what they have to do to get in, or b) say "screw the secret, I don't want their dumb ol' secret anyways!" I suppose some might opt for a c), such as an Eeyore-esque "I'm not good enough for the secret anyways," but... they have no place in my analysis here. LOL. In the end, it usually all boils down to ego.
I'm usually a response b, but sometimes, it depends on how cool the secret-holders are. And, what it takes to get in. :) Seriously, though, in a case like this, when the 'secret' is logically kept and logically given, then anybody who wants to throw a pissy hissy fit over it... well.. I guess that's their perogative, then, isn't it. It seems pretty simple to me; if you don't care then it's not an issue, if it is an issue, then shell over the $20 and be done with it. Right?
LG, you talk about the perks of being a member, but to me, the decision to become a member wasn't about the perks. I haven't gone to an event in a while. I haven't used the club discounts anywhere. The ad free experience is nice and the extra forum are nice, but I really don't have to have it.
The reason I became a member is because I liked the site and I recognized the hard work that Jeff has put in to make this site a success. To me, that work is worth more than the twenty bucks I pay a month. The fact that he gives away all the extra perks is a huge plus, but never factored in to my decision to join the club.
Maybe if some of you arguing about why you won't join the club took a look at the work that goes in to making a community like this then maybe you wouldn't be so quick to harshly criticize the fact that there is a club option and that there are people willing to pony up cash to support the site, even if you are too cheap to do it yourself.
Oh, and Playa, maybe we need a little visit from CO right about now... (might want to bring the MVoJ along as well... you might need backup)
Certain victory.
For the love of all postings woman...STOP MAKING SENSE! I mean that! Right this instant!
-CO
*** Edited 11/6/2007 8:16:48 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
CarrieR said:It seems pretty simple to me; if you don't care then it's not an issue, if it is an issue, then shell over the $20 and be done with it. Right?
What's that smell? Is that... logic???
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CarrieR said:
It's emotional (I know this violates Gonch's almighty dollar theory, but sometimes it's the emotion that FEEDS the dollar, see?)
History dictates that for saying that, you'll be ridiculed out of town, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes...
Jeffrey Seifert said:
It's perceived as elitist, as if those who haven't coughed up the $20.00 don't have anything worthy to say.
Just curious, when is ACE getting rid of its membership dues?
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Just curious, when is ACE getting rid of its membership dues?
There's quite a big difference here, but I'm certain you already know that. We didn't start with a free news source then all of sudden tell everyone part of that news source is going to require that you pay extra. ACE has always been a dues paying club. The bulk of the ACE membership dues goes toward the print publications, and our dues paying members seem quite happy with what they get for their money.
*** Edited 11/6/2007 8:57:27 PM UTC by Jeffrey Seifert***
tambo said:
That's because there wasn't a big, bold SECRET behind it.
SLFAKE said:
...and while it might be a bit annoying to know that there are "SECRET" conversations going on, I think I can live with it.
Ok, so a bit of the problem comes from the temporary implementation of the test run. Then have no fears, it'll be gone in the future. :)
(that's all I can say - it's Jeff's site and he writes code...anything more would just be me talking where I don't really know the whole deal - not that it usually stops me :) )
Jeffrey Seifert said:
Because the bulk of your 29,134 registered members come here for one thing and one thing only...
Just to clarify - they're not my visitors. It doesn't change my life in any capacity if 5 people or 50,000 people visit this site.
My site is a purely passive experience. :)
CarrieR said:
It's emotional (I know this violates Gonch's almighty dollar theory, but sometimes it's the emotion that FEEDS the dollar, see?)
Rob Ascough said:
History dictates that for saying that, you'll be ridiculed out of town, so it'll be interesting to see how this goes...
Ahh, it's going to go in a way you never saw coming.
She's mostly right.
Why?
Because in this context she's talking about the consumer side of things.
And to be entirely honest, that's the part of that whole can of worms, I often feel like you overlook. It is emotional on your side of the equation when a park or coaster goes bye-bye. But it's not on the other end. Geauga Lake closing had nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with "doing what was right." CLP closing had nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with "what had to be done."
You can be as mad as you want and feel whatever you want about such situations. The truth is the people on the other side of that relationship don't care and when you (or anyone) get all crazy about it the response from people like myself isn't necessarily argumentive or a disagreement or putting those ideas down, but rather an attempt at reasoning by pointing out the the other side doesn't feel the same way about you - it's just business.
It isn't an decision to be made by emotion when a park or ride closes. Never has been. Never will be.
Kick The Sky said:
LG, you talk about the perks of being a member, but to me, the decision to become a member wasn't about the perks.
Agreed for the most part. I'm just wondering why some perks that create serperation are ok and others are the most offensive thngs a website could do?
I got some answers, I suppose.
CarrieR said:
It seems pretty simple to me; if you don't care then it's not an issue, if it is an issue, then shell over the $20 and be done with it.
And even with the answers I've gotten - I still can't for the life of me figure out why it (or anything for that matter) has to be more complicated than that. :)
Lord Gonchar said:
And to be entirely honest, that's the part of that whole can of worms, I often feel like you overlook. It is emotional on your side of the equation when a park or coaster goes bye-bye. But it's not on the other end. Geauga Lake closing had nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with "doing what was right." CLP closing had nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with "what had to be done."
Ah, but not really. I understand there are two sides to look at. I always had a problem with this because I don't feel you ever suggested there was a difference, instead offering up a blanket statement that says business and emotion don't go hand-in-hand... which I always argued was never the case.
It's a SECRET!!!
Honestly, is stuff like this so major to some of you guys? IIRC this was just a fun way for the mods to discuss stuff that didn't need to be out on the main forums...
It's going to be a long off season - I can feel it in my water... See - now I have to go mop up lol
-Jimvy! :)
Jeffrey Seifert said:
ACE has always been a dues paying club. The bulk of the ACE membership dues goes toward the print publications, and our dues paying members seem quite happy with what they get for their money.
But wait a second, that wasn't your argument. Your argument was this:
"It's perceived as elitist, as if those who haven't coughed up the $20.00 don't have anything worthy to say."
How is paying however many dollars for an ACE membership any less elitist than paying for membership to a different club? I don't get to vote in ACE elections because I don't pay. Do I not have a worthy voice in those elections because you haven't collected a membership fee from me? Is my vote worth nothing? If paying $20 for a private forum is elitist, how is requiring someone to pay into having a vote in ACE leadership not elitist?
I mean really your worry about Jeff being perceived as "elitist" is very noble but I get the sense he's not exactly losing sleep over it.
And still, maybe if it were elitist, so what? Stay if you want, leave if you want, but I don't think Jeff is going to change the decision based on a handful of nay-sayers, especially when there's been a flood of quality long-time members on the private board who haven't posted in years.
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Lord Gonchar said:
Club members have been getting more from the start. That's the point - pay to join and get more in return.
Indeed, but it should be noted that most of the perks realistically only apply to those living somewhere in North America.
Note that the above should not be construed as a criticism. All events have to be targetted somewhere.
Anyway, I can't say I've ever noticed the colo(u)r scheme or ads one way or another, so the only benefit which applies to me is the forum access, and it's not worth the money for me given how many other boards are out there that don't charge. Besides, I wouldn't do much more than skim it anyway; this is the first thread I've actually bothered to read in some time.
I develop Superior Solitaire when not riding coasters.
It's emotional (I know this violates Gonch's almighty dollar theory, but sometimes it's the emotion that FEEDS the dollar, see?)
I had an interesting conversation with a Ford R&D engineer a couple weeks back. He explained that the largest factor in most vehicle purchasing decisions is the emotional connection between the purchaser and the vehicle.
Closed topic.
