No, DeSantis isn't "winning" against Walt Disney World

sirloindude:

the candidate you end up labeling the lesser of two evils might not be the same as someone else’s.

Of course! We all make this decision for ourselves.

The idea that there is not right and wrong is goofy to me. Not a single person will defend the position that a party behind an autocrat and fascist is OK. Is there a spectrum of right and wrong? I imagine there is. To me, and I suspect most rational people, wrong goes in this order:

1. Dismantling democracy
2. Advocating for hate and violence against any segment of the population
3. Everything else

And yeah, I'll even put the abortion debate in the last one, for either side. The first two are absolute disqualifiers. It's a low bar, obviously, but literally anyone not in the first two categories is "better."

Sidebar: There were good to middling candidates in each party who were not the nominees in 2016, and 2000. People didn't vote for them.

Well, these numbers are interesting.

Separate thought:

Since the topic has been brought up, I'd like to share another "Gonchism" that shows how weird I am and how these parties will likely never check a majority of my boxes.

I'm both pro-choice (a solidly lefty stance) and pro-capital punishment (a solidly righty stance). But to me it's consistent because both are killing with a purpose...and clearly, I guess I'm ok with that.

I don't really have a point beyond that. I got busy this weekend and it feels like the conversation pulled away from me. (which is totally fine)

(Does that website still exist that shows which potential candidate shares the most views in common with you?)

Lord Gonchar:

I'm both pro-choice (a solidly lefty stance) and pro-capital punishment (a solidly righty stance). But to me it's consistent because both are killing with a purpose...and clearly, I guess I'm ok with that.

I’ve kind of been all over the map with both issues. Currently I’m pro-life, but against federal involvement in the issue. To that point I think overturning Roe v. Wade was the right thing; leave it to the states to decide…like Capital Punishment.

Which is a nice way to segue into…

I believed in Capital Punishment my entire life until my stance started shifting maybe a couple years ago. I don’t think it’s impossible for people to change, and I don’t think anyone is beyond forgiveness, and as imperfect humans ourselves I think we should be more open to offering grace, as difficult as that can be (I know I struggle with it…a lot).

If anything, more recently I’ve come to realize the complexities of both issues and to some degree can understand both sides of each.

Lord Gonchar:

Well, these numbers are interesting.

But not surprising. Belief Perseverance and Group Polarization at its absolute finest. I know my fair share of My Pillow Guy believers and their rabid support of Trump only grows stronger with every headline.

There are few things more politically exhausting than the idea that you have to be "all or nothing" for team Donkey or team Elephant. Or team whatever. I want to believe the average person is more nuanced than that, but then again critical thinking and reflective thought on one's beliefs doesn't seem to run wild in this country. At least my part of the country.

Carl Sagan would be sad to learn how prophetic his work, Demon Haunted World, has been shown to be.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing Gonch is talking about this website?

https://www.isidewith.com/

Yes! That was the site I was thinking of.

OhioStater:

I want to believe the average person is more nuanced than that, but then again critical thinking and reflective thought on one's beliefs doesn't seem to run wild in this country.

The more you pay attention, the more disappointed you'll be.

"Today, I'm in Ohio".

Where disappointment abounds.

But hell, I'm a boots-on-the-ground soldier fighting the good fight. Tomorrow morning is day #1 of year 15 of teaching college. Can't wait to start the indoctrination of students one by one. We start by watching The Exorcist (really). It's a long story.

Yeah, but, dude.

Tennessee is so much worse. I don't hate Ohio.

I've only been for Dollywood. The plan was always to 1) rent cabin, 2) ride the rides, 3) return through West Virginia praying the vehicle doesn't break down in LostKause country.

EDIT: No offense to LostKause, who not only headlined his own band but also continues to kick ass in his own way.

To me, and I suspect most rational people, wrong goes in this order:

Dismantling democracy
Advocating for hate and violence against any segment of the population
Everything else > RRR.

Fixed that for you.

Vater:

And if anyone says that's not the issue and that you're not telling me who to vote for again...then I don't know what the hell we're arguing anymore.

Yes, that's been my argument. I really don't care who you vote for. I do care when people continue to argue that both sides, in their current iteration, represent a similar danger when they clearly do not. Because it's not a policy nor ideology argument, unless your ideology is that democracy shouldn't exist in America, which I am reasonably confident is not anyone's position here.

The Former Guy was, among many other things, frighteningly close to calling in the National Guard to seize voting machines in an effort to remain in power despite losing the election. The only thing that stopped him was the threat of mass resignation of his cabinet. If elected, it stands to reason that The Former Guy wouldn't make the same mistake of choosing people so insufficiently disloyal. I don't understand how someone can look at that and think that is a threat of the same order of magnitude as any policy on the left. But, again, I'm willing to try to understand the "both sides" argument in this framework.

Also, I find it fascinating that people can simultaneously believe in small government, and that the government should have the power to murder citizens. Sliders, or something.

There is no morale equivalency between the two sides...but the "wish" that there was is what ardent supporters need to believe in order to sleep at night. It's the reason Trump is running away in the polls as the Republican nominee right now.

I guarantee you that had a Democrat said things at the Capitol that incensed a riot...and then sat in his dining room while the Capitol was under attack without lifting a finger...the right would have spontaneously combusted and Fox would have led with it every night SINCE January 6th...and every night into the foreseeable future.

Honestly, just picture this for a moment: A black President does the EXACT same thing as Trump did...and throngs of angry, black men and women storm the Capitol building. Seriously...think about what would have happened in this country had THAT happened. And THEN tell me about morale equivalency.

You just have to look at the coverage of police brutality protests that turn bad. There’s a big difference between protesting over police brutality and losing an election but I think there’s common ground to be found if we could come ip for air.

“And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.”

I went to visit the mouse for a long weekend and thought I would come back here to see all had been resolved. But its still mostly people talking past one another. Maybe if I had 1,000 years of accrued vacation like Europe has, all would have been resolved when I got back. LOL

What has happened to Coasterbuzz indeed.

djDaemon:

Also, I find it fascinating that people can simultaneously believe in small government, and that the government should have the power to murder citizens. Sliders, or something.

In theory, one guy could do all the necessary killing.

That's small government. 😀

Stuck in the middle with you... ;)

Holy crap, according to iSideWith, I'm a Republican?! How the hell did THAT happen?! (actually, I got a mix, and not unexpected)

I'm a 68% match with Joe Exotic. So...

OhioStater:

No offense to LostKause,

None taken. I still live in rural Lincoln County, WV, but I moved a little closer to the big city of Huntington now. It's better now. I'm still a city boy who lives in the country.

And closer to the top of this page... at first, I thought Gonch was talking about The Political Compass.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

I love talking politics, but I'm finding some of the issues we're talking about to be less urgent right now. All I care about right now is getting the fascist wannabe cult leaders out of politics so we can continue our democracy the way it is intended. After that, I can focus my attention on the more important stuff again. I would like to think that the majority of Americans do not want to live like the citizens of North Korea.

Lord Gonchar:

In theory, one guy could do all the necessary killing.

That's small government. 😀

Wow, turns out I’m a 98% match with this guy. Makes sense. And solves all of the problems. Gotta love small government.