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Le roi est mort. Vive le roi.
Thanks Great America!
That's because you shouldn't be using land to form building, tunnels, etc. That's what the (more versatile) scenery is for.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure
Jeff said:
That's because you shouldn't be using land to form building, tunnels, etc. That's what the (more versatile) scenery is for.
Who are you, or Chris, to tell ME how I *SHOULD* play the game? That kind of arrogance really pisses me off.
Removing features I enjoyed using from a game just makes no sense. The path thing is particularly annoying and stupid. I used to really enjoy being able to theme the queue colors and supports to the ride colors and theming. Now I can't. It's utterly stupid, and a whole area of gameplay I enjoyed (whether or not YOU enjoyed it or even care is irrelevent) is just ripped away. For NO good reason.
So yes, as the number of things missing or removed increases, my annoyance increases. I really want to know what the HECK Chris was thinking. He utterly destroyed the path/queue thing, imho. He removed a very useful land tool. He removed the cliff sides (and yes, you can use stackable scenery too, at additional cost, but you can't match a land face to stackable scenery so having a path come out from underground and out of a building looks horrible... among many other issues). He removed opaque water (and it's toggle). He removed the finance button from easy access and unnecessarly HID it, burying it in unintutitive places. What the heck? Not one single new item added to any of the existing themes (many of which are screaming for new items... like colorful oriental dragons and paper lanterns in the oriental theming, as an example). Instead we get a StarFruit drink stand and a Soy Milk stall. HUH?
Yes, I'm exceedingly annoyed with the things Chris has removed needlessly, or changed needlessly. Yes, I also LOVE the new additions. But I'm also very annoyed at the LACK of new things, items, and options.
What's doubly frustrating is that there are many featuers that were mentioned in several previews (landscape scattering tool, ability to toggle invisiblity at a finer granularity to aid in building, etc) that are simply nowhere to be found. It's frustrating to be told something is going to be there, look forward to it because it would be very cool, and then find nothing of the sort (and in some cases, things even worse than they were in the previous version).
Spryboy,
Yet again you miss the point. If you are that pissed off about the changes, don't gripe to us about it. We didn't write the program. Contact Infogrames and let them know.
If he "utterly destroyed" the game with the changes, just pull the disc out of the tray and put it in a shredder so you never have to play it again.
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Le roi est mort. Vive le roi.
Thanks Great America!
Well I guess you can't please everyone. If you want the game to be just like you want it, go get yourself a degree, or start your own company, or maybe even go work at Infogrames in the whatever department that makes these kind of mindblowing decisions and put your two cents in by-golly. You know, I betcha because you don't like the game, there will people on here who haven't bought it yet that will NOT go and buy it know, just because you don't like the changes that were made. The landscape scattering tool is in the scanario editor, the finance button is located easily by clicking on the...the what you say?...the cash readout in the bottom left of the screen. Finances...money...finances...money...you know, that kinda fits. Sheesh dude...are you using this game to land you a designing job with B&M or something? If you are, then this is not the software to use...trust me. If not, then just relax, don't be such a perfectionist and enjoy the game....it's a game...just a game...and only a game, you won't die if your tunnel entrances for walkways look like crap...you might whine and sulk a bit, but those things aren't life threatening...really dude they're not. Have fun with the game and wait for an expansion pack or two...maybe some of what you want might be there...oh what a happy day that will be. :)
edit...oh, and do you feel you can call Chris Sawyer merely by his first name because you are an "enthusiast"? Show some respect for the man by calling him Mr. Sawyer or even by his full name. Do you know him, are you on a first name basis with him? Is he your bud? The way you're bashing his game and disrespecting all the hours he has put into designing and developing the software, you don't deserve to call him merely by his first name. His name is Chris Sawyer, I believe he deserves a little respect kid.
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359 laps on ST
My worst day fishing is better than my best day at work....
my worst day coastering is better than my best day fishing.
*** This post was edited by MI Trooper1 on 10/16/2002. ***
Spryboy is posting his opinion. He's got something on his mind and is bringing it to this forum. Isn't that what this is for?
The truth is Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 has good and it has bad. I completely agree with Spryboy in saying that it makes no sense, whatsoever, to turn a good from RCT1 to a bad in RCT2. The path/queue limitations is a HUGE good to bad example.
Don't get me wrong, there are also several bad to good (stackable scenery, block breaking), but why couldn't we have those and still keep the many path options and/or the land sloping tool.
I'm very eager to see a post-RCT2 release interview with Chris Sawyer and have some of these questions answered and see his reactions to reviews that give him less than superior game ratings. (if anyone sees one, link it on here!!"
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359 laps on ST
My worst day fishing is better than my best day at work....
my worst day coastering is better than my best day fishing.
Needless quotation removed... don't quote an entire post when it was the previous post. That makes zero sense. -J
First of all, I was trying to keep my post on topic. The topic being "Why did he remove things that were good... this is frustrating!"
Second of all, I'm not a kid. I'm a professional software developer with a good 15 years experience under my belt. I know good UI design, and the choices he made here are bad. Not to mention that you don't remove useful features from an expansion/sequel for no good reason.
I mean, the ducks don't even quack any more!
I *love* the new additions. I really do. Stackable scenery, being able to place rides and stalls at any height, the new themes are cool... But that's what makes the warts all the more frustrating. And it's just that: frustration. I don't *hate* the game. But I do have to wonder, over and over, WHAT WAS CHRIS THINKING! Why remove things? Why hide things? Why cripple things? Once given, why take away?
(p.s. I'll respect Chris more when he starts respecting the players of his games... his nazi-like control-freakishness deserves no respect... his "My way or the highway" crap is annoying, and it's likely the SOLE reason he did things like removing the window mode. The users of my software always use it differently from the way I do... and the users are always right. If I were to 'dictate' a specific way to use a program, I'd lose users. I don't understand why Chris thinks he can and should be able to get away with crap like that. Give us MORE options, not fewer.)
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 10/16/2002. ***
First of all, it's inappropriate and offensive to compare a developer, who happened to write a game on his own (in assembly language no less) to Nazis. Nazis killed millions of Jews and were perhaps the most evil people on the planet. Make another comparison like that again on my site and I'll ban your ass for being that stupid.
You talk about Sawyer like you know the guy and know what was going on in his head. That's crap. You don't know jack about what he was thinking because you didn't ask him. Don't be so arrogant to assume you know anything about him.
All you've done is cry about the damn game since it came out and yet you can't seem to stop playing it. Worse yet, the majority of the things you complain about are cosmetic things that don't affect game play. The only things I've encountered yet that I don't get is the removal of the mute button and the terra-forming shovel in the actual game.
If the game disappoints you so much, put it on eBay and leave us to discuss playing the game. I've finished four scenarios so far and am having a blast.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure
Spryboy said:
Who are you, or Chris, to tell ME how I *SHOULD* play the game? That kind of arrogance really pisses me off.
Hmmm. There is so much wrong with this that I barely know where to begin. Chirs created the game. He had a specific idea in mind. Anyone game designer/creator simply by making a game is technically telling you how to play it. Should I be pissed because I can't play RCT as a first person shooter? Damn him for not adding that - he's clearly a dictator who doesn't want me going postal doom-style on the peeps. How dare he tell ME how to play the game he created!
I'm trying desperately to undestand WHY you would *remove* features from an *expansion* or a sequel.
For the sake of streamlining the game - it's efficiency. Most (if not all) of your complaints are purely visual elements that don't effect gameplay. Every button placement complaint also seems invalid as every option you mentioned is reachable in the same amount or fewer clicks than in the first game. Some are even in the same spot (you could always reach the finace window from the bottom left corner - he just removed the tab at the top as is was redundant)
I do understand some frustration though; after playing something for 3+ years you become pretty accustomed to it's layout. It's not so much that RCT is bad, it's just different. After just a few hours I've gotten quite aquainted with the new look and feel. I think most of your complaints come from that sense of frustration.
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park visits in 2002: 19
I'm following ya spryboy...I got your point. I understand what you're saying, especially when it comes to your software. Here's my point though, and please don't get me wrong here and take it the wrong way, but it's not your software, it's Chris Sawyers software. He is selling this software to over a million people. Whereas only .1% of the end users are enthusiasts like us. The majority of the users out there will be in the what...13-25 y.o. market? Would that be a safe assumption? I'm just thinking here that changes made and those to be made in the future will target those people in that demographic if/when he makes any at all.
You are a software designer, so you will be most critical of all, I don't knock you for that, because it's what you do. But I do believe the original topic of this post is "New in RCT2" not why did he remove what is good. When you make changes in your software to satisfy others, at times does this not upset some of your end users who had absolutely no problems with the original? I don't know for sure because I don't know what you design, but has this not been the case once or twice? You're not going to please everyone are you? :) Anyways, it was good to hear that you don't *hate* the game, it's a fun game. I'm learning to adapt to the changes, and I'm also looking forward to and hoping for some additional changes in the future, but right now I'm just having fun. :) p.s. your ducks don't quack? Mine do...and the balloons pop too. I still have that cool water sound too. Though they only work if i'm zoomed all the way in...cept for the balloons, they'll pop if I'm zoomed one frame out, but not any further than that.
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359 laps on ST
My worst day fishing is better than my best day at work....
my worst day coastering is better than my best day fishing.
Spryboy needlessly ranted:
...you don't remove useful features from an expansion/sequel for no good reason.
I mean, the ducks don't even quack any more!
How are the ducks quacking a useful feature?
Get over it. Like I said earlier, pull the freaking disc out of your computer and run it through a shredder if it sucks so bad. Either way, go away.
Jeff, In the new version, can you add a "hush feature" so we can silence certain users? ;)
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Le roi est mort. Vive le roi.
Thanks Great America!
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359 laps on ST
My worst day fishing is better than my best day at work....
my worst day coastering is better than my best day fishing.
needless quotation removed... again... -J
Correction: not nazi; fascist. Better?
As for "not affecting gameplay" speak for yourself. My game play has been severely affected. Not everyone plays the game the same way you do. You seem to suffer the same arrogance Chris does.
So, you actually GET the removal of all the path options? And the tying together of the queue type and the path type, so that if you change one, the other changes too, forcing you to constantly have to change it back? The path thing is exceedingly annoying to me. I don't get why he'd totally ruin the paths like that.
I'm sure I'll get less frustrated as time goes on, but my first scenereo (The very first one) was just filled with frustration and just being indreculous at all the many things that were removed or made worse. Yes, I noticed all the things that were better too, but I just cannot comprehend why you'd remove or ruin perfectly good and usable things in a *sequel*. If he had left everything in, and just added what he added, the game would have been SO much better. You don't find that frustrating?
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 10/16/2002. ***
Lord Gonchar said:
Hmmm. There is so much wrong with this that I barely know where to begin. Chirs created the game. He had a specific idea in mind. Anyone game designer/creator simply by making a game is technically telling you how to play it. Should I be pissed because I can't play RCT as a first person shooter? Damn him for not adding that - he's clearly a dictator who doesn't want me going postal doom-style on the peeps. How dare he tell ME how to play the game he created!
You didn't get what I was saying at all, completely missing the point.
The fact is, there are people who don't like to play scenereos (I'm not one of them). There are people who love to theme, and those who don't. There are people who love to theme queues to the rides (me!) and others who don't. People get different things from the game, and use the different features in different ways. There isn't ONE CORRECT WAY to play this game. Do you understand the point I was trying to make now?
MI Trooper1 said:
But I do believe the original topic of this post is "New in RCT2" not why did he remove what is good.
Yes, well, people should be aware that some of the "new" things in RCT2 is that he removed a LOT of items, options, and conveniences that were in RCT1.
And when I design new versions, I keep in mind backwards compatibility, and provide forward looking options (or "advanced" options that allow people to use "old ways"). But none of that explains my biggest gripe: the path/queue stuff. Ugh.
I'm glad some of you don't give a crap if he removed useful features. Not everyone feels the same way you do, though. The game could have been *great* but at this point I have to agree with most of the major reviews out there that it's only "okay". Dammit, I really resent having my path options taken away like that.
And redman822, I never said a quacking duck was a useful feature. Now that I know it works for others, I'll try to figure out what messed up that it doesn't work for me (though it does fine in RCT1). My point there was that there are little options and things that would have taken effort to change, for no good reason. Why waste the energy? You obviously completely missed my point.
Spryboy, if we keep missing your point, perhaps the fault lies with you not MAKING your point clear in the first place.
All I see is a person acting like a whiny child because they are unhappy with something...What's next ... a temper tantrum???
And you keep ranting about the paths...and the ducks, guess what, how does that affect gameplay? Neither has affected my ability to play the game, nor have I heard anyone else have a fit over it but you.
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Le roi est mort. Vive le roi.
Thanks Great America!
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