Mitch's Poll: Steel Coaster Results

---

coasterdudeOH said:
I want to meet the 51 people that rode King Cobra at PKI. It ranked 206 on the poll for this year.

---

I rated it dead last on my ballot because it was painful and had the worst restraints I've ever seen. That is the only ride I was practically begging to get off afterward (but of course had to sit on the brake run for five minutes due to sloooooow loading).

As for Magnum...that's beyond help. It's not the restraints I mind so much, it's the fact that it's rough as hell.

-Nate

hey well at least some of all the favorites of everyone are there.

I know I made a similar post in another thread, but I figured it deserved mentioning here as well (trimmed and re-worded for relevancy, of course).

Here's a note for those of you who were criticizing me about SF and the design of their coasters. A friend sent me an article from an interview with someone who works at B&M designing coasters. The most relevant point:

---

Q: Is Silver Bullet similar to other suspended coasters you've built, such as "Batman the Ride" at Magic Mountain in Valencia?

A: Each one is design-specific for one park with all the elements that they want and need. This one has a much larger loop and a cobra roll.

---

Note: bold added by me for emphasis.

In other words, if SF would have said "we want a better ride with more elements", they would have given them a better ride. Unfortunately, SF management just isn't that imaginitive any more, which I personally believe is evident in their B&M Flyers. It also supports that, while the execs are not behind the computer calculating forces, etc. they do hold a significant role in the design of the coasters in their parks (for example, Hydra: The Jo-Jo Roll is named after the one head maintenance guy that said "hey, can we do this on our coaster?" to which B&M, obviously, answered yes)

Six Flags got what they paid for. It's less expensive to recycle the same design than it is to come up with something totally new. It's not about being creative, it's about money.

---

Antuan said:
It's only a coaster, I wasn't dissin' your momma or nothing ;)

---

Magnum *is* my momma!

I'm not talking about 3 designs being relatively similar, I'm talking about those similar designs being fairly boring, relying on the gimmick of the flyer instead of packing a top-50-worthy ride.

Do you think Six Flags really specified and said, "Please make it really boring!"??

Honestly...your idea of how parks buy rides is way off. As said earlier, Six Flags most likely went to B&M and said, "This is the plot of land we have, please design a medium-sized flying coaster to fit it" and that was it. Six Flags certainly didn't sit down and sketch the ride out or specify which elements followed which (especially since a B&M flyer had not yet been built).

I have no idea what kind of case you're trying to make with your arguments, but its not going to happen with such weird logic.

-Nate

You actually echoed my point..

"This is the plot of land we have, please design a medium-sized flying coaster to fit it" and that was it.

They didn't care about making it a good ride, as long as it was made at all. Cedar Fair, on the other hand (at least as is evident with both Silver Bullet and Hydra) took a more active role on the coasters, and care about making a quality ride. I may be only 50% sure of SB, but I'm more about 95% sure of Hydra. If they didn't take an active role, the Jo-Jo wouldn't have happened. Also, in local newspaper articles when Hydra was officially released to the public, it quoting upper management from the park, they mention how they wanted a ride that "just keeps coming at you" (or something like that) and doesn't give you "time between elements". (I can't find them at the moment, or else I'd provide exact quotes).

I will concede that I probably give the parks too much credit, but it is also true that you don't give them enough credit. SF may say "yeah, we don't care - just build it to fit in this plot of land", but it seems evident to me that not all companies feel the same way.

Edit: perhaps it's not Cedar Fair at all.. maybe that's just the style of Knott's and Dorney. *** Edited 12/20/2004 5:28:31 AM UTC by dannerman***

You're reading way too much into Nate's example and I'm sure he didn't intend to make it as simplified as you took it. Six Flags isn't plopping down random rides that they plan to be mediocrity anymore than Cedar Fair would plan to do that. In general, I would take the SFGAdv collection over Dorney, SFStL over WOF, SFGAm over VF! and MiAdv *combined*, and SFMM over Knott's based only on coasters they have.

+Danny

You can call me on it come springtime, but, I don't think Hydra will be the great floorless coaster that some think it'll be. It seems unfinished after the cobra roll. I guess we'll all find out if it proves a worthy competitor to Medusa East and Superman Krypton Coaster (my two favorites, even though the floorless coaster to me is a waste unless you're sitting in the front row). I would've have liked to have seen something a lot more complex than four inversions (discounting the pre-lift inversion). I will gladly admit that I'm judging the ride based on the video.

---

Intamin Fan said:
You can call me on it come springtime, but, I don't think Hydra will be the great floorless coaster that some think it'll be. It seems unfinished after the cobra roll.

---

Unfinished? So the major pops of air before the 2nd corkscrew, the second corkscrew itself (going from an air pop right into it) plus the tight helix turn pulling the big lateral G's and you think it's unfinished? I have to disagree...

We'll have to wait and feel it up when it finally opens. There are many coasters I thought would be a lot more airy than they were (Millennium Force, Nitro, Shivering Timbers, Lightning Racer) and several that blew me away (SROS-NE, Apollo, Raven, Thunderhead).

+Danny

---

dannerman said:
Also, in local newspaper articles when Hydra was officially released to the public, it quoting upper management from the park, they mention how they wanted a ride that "just keeps coming at you" (or something like that) and doesn't give you "time between elements".

---

That's called marketing! It has nothing to do with how the ride was really designed (especially when Hydra has no less time between elements than any other B&M floorless).

You're right that Dorney wanted the jojo roll, but I don't think that makes the ride that much more unique than any other B&M that has a unique or rare element (such as Fire Dragon, Medusa West, and Wildfire). As for Silver Bullet, I do think the overbanked turn looks pretty cool, but I'd venture a guess and say that ride's layout has a lot more to do with spacial concerns than creative ones.

Although Hydra does look unique in more ways than that, I think it's presumptuous to give the credit to Dorney. I also think it's presumptuous (and over-generalizing) to state that Cedar Fair puts more work/effort/originality into their coasters' designs than Six Flags when the latter chan has plenty of pretty unique rides (Superman Krypton Coaster, Raging Bull, SFNE's S:ROS).

In other words, I think you're looking for a pattern that isn't there judging from one ride that you're obviously excited about.

-Nate

---

dannerman said:
They didn't care about making it a good ride, as long as it was made at all. Cedar Fair, on the other hand (at least as is evident with both Silver Bullet and Hydra) took a more active role on the coasters, and care about making a quality ride.

---

So now you're saying Six Flags wants boring rides and Cedar Fair doesn't? Wow. Six Flags does a lot of stupid things, but I don't think they've ever spent $10 million+ on a ride with the expectation that it's going to suck.

How many of us really know the process of ordering, designing and approving a new coaster?

Probably more than you'd realize...

I don't truly know the specifics of the process, and I don't care all that much, either. What I do know is that these 'boring' designs that Six Flags orders are quite popular. Their queue lines generally aren't filled with people who meticulously critique them and compare with similar designs at another chain 748 miles away like your typical enthusiass. Stop thinking one-dimensionally.

---

+Danny said:
In general, I would take the SFGAdv collection over Dorney, SFStL over WOF, SFGAm over VF! and MiAdv *combined*, and SFMM over Knott's based only on coasters they have.

---

You had me until the SFMM/Knott's duo. While SFMM has a ton of coasters, and some of them decent, Knott's has the rides I have more fun on. Quality over quantity any day...

(Of course, I just spent the weekend riding the surprisingly good Dania Beach Hurricane, the ONLY coaster for many miles around down there...)

Hey, Abandon Mine & Dragon are just 8 or 10 miles up the road from Boomers at Uncle Bernie's.

And where else can you ride a kiddie coaster that gives 9 laps a ride or a powered coaster that feels like it's going to stall?

If I could have read my daughter's mind, I know she'd have been like a little RCT peep - "I want to get off of Abandon Mine" :)

DBH is a gem though. Too bad it's tucked away at the tip of America's wang. (we've gone too long without a Simpson's quote/reference around here)

Ahh, I totally missed those. Ok, only WOODEN coaster for miles around... ;)