Millenium Force rip off

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Koaster King said:

Nope. I just know a little bit about something called life. Ever been there?

Are you serious? Are you REALLY accusing someone with 10+ years of experience over you, who's been out in the real world, had a real job, and has a life for himself with a wife and house and everything of knowing less about life than YOU?!! OMG I gave you TOO much credit in earlier posts (you should've seen the deleted one).

How do you parent swap at MF? I'm serious here. I've never seen it done. The diapers would still be an issue because you said not to bring any stuff to the park at all you couldn't wear I guess.

If you leave it with a non-rider, as there will inevitably be when you have a parent swap, then the whole diaper argument is completely invalid, because you can't take a baby through the line anyway, so why would you need to bring the diapers in line??

And I'm here to tell you that I witnessed, authorized, explained, and even took part in parent swaps at Millennium Force. You do a parent swap at MF pretty much the same way you do it on any other ride at Cedar Point. One person brings the purple slip through the line and gives it to a ride operator at unload when that person gets off the ride. Said person goes down the exit ramp to meet the rest of the party with the child, and the people (there can be 1 or 2) come back up the exit ramp and tell the ride operator the name on the parent swap slip. The unload hosts then let the person who came up the ramp into the line through the special access gate at unload, to get on the next trainload. Real tough, right?

If I was a woman, I definitely wouldn't want my tampon flying out of my pocket and landing on someone's lap. I'm sure she would at least need and want a purse for this one. Most women like to have their purses.

ROFL!!!! Now that's just pure comedic genius. Is she going to change her tampon in line? Is that why she NEEDS to bring it through the line with her, instead of putting it in a locker or leaving it with a non-rider? And I'm sure she'd prefer it if her tampon flies out and lands in someone's lap, rather than the entire contents of a purse, maybe an expensive cell phone and a wallet with money, etc in it and a checkbook? 93 mph is a pretty painful speed for projectiles, that's why MF's rules are different and we could not let big or valuable articles onto the ride.

After they get off a wet ride and don't expect to ride another, usually they don't like to feel all squishy and yucky throughout the park, so you might need to change.
Okay so they could...oh yeah, leave the change of clothes in the car. OR leave it in a locker. $.75 is not going to break a person, and you can leave it in the locker all day if you please. Better yet, there's a bin rental in the front of the park which costs $1.00 for all day and you can go back to it unlimited times. Not too many people know about it. Ask an employee, explore your options rather than just being one of the uneducated masses.
My uncle needs special meals fixed that contain as little to no sodium as possible which is hard to come by at parks and I have a friend who can't have dairy or peanut products, so he needs to have a special lunch with him as well. In case my friend does come into contact with one of those, he has two medications he needs to take and an inhaler which must be with them as well. Any other questions here? Think about more than just what you know on the surface.

And there's a reason these can't fit into a fanny pack, like Greg does? Also even we Nazis at MF will accommodate someone with a medical need who wants to carry their medication aboard, surprise! Though that's still not recommended, we WILL be accommodating in that situation.
Tell that to Robb Alvey.

Hey, a completely unrelated topic! Congratulations!

Some people like to do this at the park. Just looking out for them.

How can a park possibly accommodate EVERYBODY? These people will have to deal with putting it on when they can get to it, which would NOT be when they are in line for a ride.
Well, if they don't want to put them on a strap while they're on the coasters in case they still have fear on losing them, they'll probably want to put them in a bag. There are chances they could break in your pockets.

And putting them in a bag that you'll have to put at your feet and that will get jostled around A LOT if you're actually allowed to take it on the rides (all the coasters at CP except Raptor, Mantis, Millennium Force and Corkscrew fall into this category) isn't going to break them?
What if it's warm at the beginning of the day and the it starts raining and gets cooler or the opposite?

Reiteration of "Jackets or sweatshirts around the waist."
Must be you. Not a lot of shelter all around CP and sometimes rides are still open and you want to wait who line. Who doesn't like to ride in the rain?

So now you want to carry a potentially dangerous, possibly sharp-tipped item onto a ride that moves 93 mph? Great idea, let's go ahead and impale people with umbrellas! I'd also like to add that rides other than MF and Corkscrew *will* in fact hold umbrellas for you in the station while you ride, we DO understand that it rains and our lines aren't very well sheltered.

Once we took a map into the park. One of those big US map booklets to see what our route to SFWoA would be the next day, because my mom didn't want to ride all the coasters and thought she would look at that while we were on them. Money can fly out of your pockets. I know. It's happened a couple times to me.

So where's the problem here? Your mom, if she wasn't going to ride the coasters, could just hold on to your tampons and diaper bags and underwear and money and maps, hey look, a solution! And if the money flies out of your pockets, it's not secure enough.

Sorry I have to mention it again, but besides for the praise they've recieved wanting to run FOF to be left open and the "going out" year for KC, I would have to say Paramount's Kings Island. Plus, there's Islands of Adventure, Universal, and the Disney parks when I've gone.

IOA doesn't hold your stuff. I'm not even going to touch capacity at Paramount parks.
Now, PLEASE resume going away.
-Natalie
Sick of some people's egotistical, self-important, NON-JUSTIFIED attitudes, but not mentioning any names.

Once again anyone that even hints at criticizing the smallest detail at CP is ridiculed. Notice how the CP defenders here keep getting more and more irrational? It's cause they're running out of arguments to defend a policy that is flat out dumb.
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world

And it appears that some people (Jeff, airtimesros) have missed the point in that many items are used in the PARK, not in the LINE. Yes, I bring a change of clothes with me to a park if I plan to go on water rides or if it will be a cold fall day. Yes, my friends want to bring sunscreen to the park on a hot day. Yes, I will bring food because food at any park is too expensive and I don't want to waste my time waiting for it. Yes, my sister and my girlfriend will bring their purses. Are these things absolutely essential? No. I'll admit that. But they are things that I, and most of the GP, want to bring and they will make my day a lot more enjoyable. And isn't the park's goal to make my day enjoyable? If it isn't then it's a big waste of 40$.
As far as not bringing stuff through the lines at Disney, when I was there this summer they let me bring stuff through the lines on EVERY ride. I just put the bag underneath my feet on the rides. While this is not possible on MF, it IS possible for them to have a shelf for people that the ride ops put their stuff on. Before you argue against this, read my previous posts and they should answer any questions on that.
The accident on S:ROS had nothing to do with this topic. That was a mechanical, electrical, or maintenence problem and even if what you suggest was enacted the accident still would have happened and people still would have gotten hurt.
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world

Jeff said:
I'd rather see electronic wait time signs throughout the park at various queues so if you get to Raptor and it says 45 minutes while Magnum says 10, I know where to go.

It is a very good idea, and works very well- at each guest relation 'hut' in or outside each themed 'land' at Alton Towers, a board showing queue lengths for all major attractions is positioned, which is reguarly updated by the guest relations team member inside. It's certainly very useful, in deciding which attraction to hit next.
At Alton, both Oblivion and Nemesis stations, have 'divided' boxes to store stuff in, with a lid which is slid across, when a train is released- which opens the other half enabling guests exiting the train arriving into the station to get their stuff. I like to think that guest courtesy should be of much greater importance to the park, than ride capacity. Besides a tiny, tiny bit longer in line, offers you the chance to enjoy the full ride preshow videos and/or to get a good look at the themeing, ultimately giving the rider a better overall ride experience.
Also coasters at the park, such as the vekoma corkscrew, runaway mine train and Black Hole, bags etc. are allowed to be stowed at your feet on the ride. This obviously is not considered a safety hazard- as Disney themeselves even allow you to take your stuff on all their attractions, even the rock 'n' Roller Coaster, and look how serious and strict operations of their parks are.

Here's my opinion:
Once you gone to a park with a wife and 3 kids(ages 7, 10, 15), you'll understand better why a locker located at the front of a park isn't all that much help. Especially a park like PKI or CP. Sun block is a requirement( it doesn't last all day), Medication for Asthma(3 people), money, camera, etc. Personally, I'm big on traveling lite. owever for all day trips, especially in hot weather, a few extra items are required.
When an emergency comes up and your on the opposite side of the park, walking to the other side to get your items it considerably more complicated. This was especially noticed at PKI.
For small parks like MA, it's not such a problem. No location is too far away.
Please remember, not everyone who goes to parks are in their 20's and in prime health.
*** This post was edited by PointMan on 11/29/2001. ***
*** This post was edited by PointMan on 11/29/2001. ***

Jeff said:
Parks don't need to do anything but get my butt on the ride as quickly as possible, and messing with people's crap doesn't allow for that.

Actually, I prefer it when parks do more for me. I go for a more complete experience.

MF has two stations and every ride op on the load platform is there to get people seated and checked as quickly as possible. You're insane if you think they owe it to you to mess with something you don't need to ride.
Isn't calling someone insane a little extreme here?

More than a hundred coasters and dozens of parks and I've never needed to bring anything with me that didn't fit on my body.
Kids. Kids changed my life totally. My wife's wheelchair did too. Have you ever pushed a wheelchair around PKI. It's tough, especially Top Gun. I never used to carry around much myself, now I find myself carrying more.
Sure, some parks will accomodate you, but they do so either at expense to them with electronic locker systems or they do it the old fashioned way and have the slowest moving lines in the universe (again, see Volcano and FOF).
I found Volcano and FOF very accomodating and I speak highly of PKD because of this. SFA wasn't accomodating, therefore I don't speak much about it.

If you really need to carry crap with you, and it bothers you that much, please, send a message to the park by not going.

Doesn't this last statement contradict the mission of promoting park attendance?
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

*** This post was edited by PointMan on 11/29/2001. ***

AirtimeSROS: you rock!
wow.....what a bunch of crybabies.
I'm glad that some of you will opt out of going to parks cuz you can't bring your suitcase, that means more ride time for me!
I can't believe that people are whining about this crap. Getting rained on while waiting in line....guess what....you're gonna get rained on when you ride......boo hoo you lose or break sunglasses. Here's a tip-get some cheap ones to wear at the park. That way if you lose them, you won't go into shock. It's amazing to me that people can't survive 10-12 hours without all the comforts of home. I must be better at planning my day than some.
In all the parks I've been to there are lockers all over (not just at the front) you only have to look. How hard is that? You pay to get in, to park, and whatever other things you decide to spend money on, so getting a locker or a bin for a couple of quarters shouldn't put you on welfare. Ask your mommies for a little extra allowance. The parks would take on a big liability if the lockers were free, because you know someone's stuff would be stolen, then they'd blame the park (as people do) even if it's clearly stated that the park is not responsible for lost or stolen items.
Some of you act like the parks do nothing to accomodate you. The parks provide safe, secure places for your stuff.....lockers. It's up to you to use the service provided or not, but it don't complain like there's nothing for you. I'm so sick of the laziness and the it's-all-about -me attitude. A park is a business, not your personal catering service. I for one, would rather have my stuff in a locker that I control, rather than worrying if someone has taken my things. What if that happened and all your special needs get stolen? then what??
Liz
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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

Live4MF,
Crybabies, now there's a good argument. et's call people crybabies.You've won me over!
I've just thought of a new add slogan for Cedar Fair:
If you don't like our service, don't come, we don't want you!"
That should really bring in the customers.
As far as you comment of it's-all-about-me is concerned. The same could be said about those who are overly concerned with ride capacity.
*** This post was edited by PointMan on 11/29/2001. ***

better work on that code, dude.
overly concerned about ride capacity? interesting, I bet the parks are too.
ok, you wait twice as long because of people and their junk, but you can't complain.
I don't recall saying anything about capacity, but thanks for reading that in. As I said before, there is a solution: lockers.
L
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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer
*** This post was edited by live4MF on 11/29/2001. ***

quailroberts/Koaster King: If Cedar Point's policies upsets you guys so much to the point of you writing full page posts, I suggest you take it up the park.... I don't know, maybe its me, but I think its kinda frivolous arguing over an amusement park/policies/rides. Now, I commend you guys for sticking up for what you believe in, but it's kind pointless doing it on a message board. I swear, I think some people on here need to like, chill..Seriously!!
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Dayuum, Your HOT!
*** This post was edited by Coasterr on 11/29/2001. ***

Let's try this example, I've got four kids from 7 - 13 with me and we've just got of Gemini. My youngest child's skin is starting to burn because the sunscreen wore off. Now, we have to go all the way to the front of the park to get the sunscreen because that's where our locker is. Some solution.
Live4MF. The code problem wasn't my fault. I didn't go back to edit it out. Sometimes the wierd HTM happens when I submit entries. I'm not the only one this happens to, it's not relevant to the argument so lay off.
BTW, no one's going to wait twice as long as a result of any of the changes suggested. Please ease up on the hyperbole.
*** This post was edited by PointMan on 11/29/2001. ***

once again, there are lockers all over, not just in the front of the park.
Some solution, you say.....at least it is a solution. Life is not always easy, sometimes there are mild inconveniences.
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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

Bottom line, all lockers at parks should be free. And all food. And games. Hell, why not admission?
[/sarcasm]

I think that things need to be clarified here. I think no one is saying you shouldn't bring a bag of stuff if you want. The argument is that you shouldn't bring it in line for MF. There is no way to but a shelf in the loading platform because the unloading platform is in a different area, and looking at a park map, a different building. So shelfs are out. That is why they put the lookers at the begiining of the line, not the front of the park. And if I remember correctly this is the only ride that requires this at Cedar Point. I have seen the mulitple bins at the other roller coasters, so we are only talking about one ride. Everyone brings different things, but do you reallly need all that in line for this one ride. Everything that people have used as examples could either wait till after the ride, or in the case of diapers, have their own solutions (nobody brings a baby into line with them, so someone is watching them). Everyone is passionate about their views, I just think that everyone is talking about the same situation in this topic. And if you don't like it your free to not ride the ride. You have rules in your house, well this is their house so you have to follow their rules.

Jeff (aka the HNIC) Requested: And for the third time, someone show me where these friendly crap-watching ride ops run a ride at full capacity, because I still haven't seen one.
Shockwave and Raging Bull @ SFGAm, GASM-II and Nitro @ SFGAdv, Apollo's Chariot @ BGW, Lighting Racers, Sooperdooperlooper, Great Bear @ HersheyPark. Oh and I could add the rides @ Holiday World, but I know the reponse I'd get.
Abs(aka the DLP guru :)) said: So, what can we do? Well, force the people to put their junk at their feet in the train, not on their chest
And I dont think anyone really has a problem with that. I mean CP does that on their other coasters and, while wierd in my opinion, it's cool. Problem with Millie is this is an option NOT afforded to the guests.
live4MF (aka the pretty Liz) said:You pay to get in, to park, and whatever other things you decide to spend money on, so getting a locker or a bin for a couple of quarters shouldn't put you on welfare. Ask your mommies for a little extra allowance. The parks would take on a big liability if the lockers were free, because you know someone's stuff would be stolen, then they'd blame the park (as people do) even if it's clearly stated that the park is not responsible for lost or stolen items.
1) How many times have folks here complained that parks are *ALREADY* ripping folks off? ANY added charge, no matter how minimal, adds to that.
2) Why do you assume that the people complaining are "on allowance". Some of us actually *work* for a living.
3) IF the parks would take a hit for offering free lockers, why does IOA/USF do it? Moreover, how is peoples stuff LESS secure in a locked FREE locker than in a locked PAY locker?
My point is this, if you will not allow people to leave items, including items that you yourself vend, on the platform, then you should offer a free alternative. Either allow them to take on the ride with them, or provide a place for it. The pay locker just doesnt sit well with me. It didnt on Kraken, it didnt on Kumba, and it didnt on Millie. No sir, didnt like it!
Oh and a final point on *why* people carry things. Hey, if you can get along fine living like a Spartan, with only the clothes on your back etc., so be it. Realize that many people do not. While *YOU* may not be able to comprehend it, it does not make it any less valid. Several people have defended why they bring what they bring. Personally, I do not feel compelled to explain myself to ANY of you as none of you is that important to me. Now, what I'll get back is "You wont explain it because you cant!" And in some respects this is true. No matter what I say, you all will still feel the way you feel so it is a moot point. Whether for fashion of function, many people like to carry stuff/bags/backpacks/purses. As a proprietor of an amusement business, you should understand the makeup of your clientle and plan accordingly. Obviously, CP recognized this fact otherwise the lockers would not have appeared. But for whatever reason, they did not feel this was a service that should be offered sans additional charge.
ciao,
moi
-- (1-800) five-eight-eight two-three hundred EMPIRE!

Cargo pants and shorts are nice and all for carrying stuff. And I take all I need on me. But have you ever had to take a 6 year old kid with you to the park? One they are hungry all the time, and sorry but I am not taking out a loan to afford the food at the park, so she gets small snacks like some pretzels and a water bottle. Yes there is a towel and clothing for her. And if i am in a new park, I have no idea how far away a locker is from a water ride or if it gets hot out or rains and where I will be. I am dragging a child back and forth for that. Thats my reasoning as a parent. For anyone else, I do not know.
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Any resemblance to living or
dead people is purely coincidental.

Ride Ops crews at SFGAm don't watch your stuff, per what 2Hostyl said. Its impossible to do that, and its also park policy that they do not watch those things. Just because they take something and put it in the box for you(WHICH is extremely annoying, put your own damn crap in the box...another thing that isn't our job) does not mean they are watching it. They don't have time to do that. People can easily take anything while they are checking the train--they don't keep a hawk eye out on your stuff for two reasons: 1.) They don't care, because its not theirs. 2.) Its not their job.

to answer the question of why people carry stuff into the park take this example: I was at Universal Florida. the first day I lost my wallet on one of the rides. I got it back the next day, but that same day I lost my pocket knife on Dr. Doom. now tell me that a pocket knife that starts off a hundred feet in the air isn't going to hurt someone when it lands. thankfully it didn't, but I never got it back and I no longer wear those shorts to parks. point is that if I have that stuff in my pocket there's no guarantee that its not going to come out on the ride. however, if I can leave it in the station then its probably going to be there when I get back. in all the years that I have left stuff in the station I have never once had anything stolen, nor have I held up the exit line, nor have I caused any undue stress to the ride ops or people waiting in line.
here's another reason why people bring things into the park: THEY AREN'T YOU! you may be able to survive with the things that you carry with you, but maybe someone else needs something more.
it doesn't matter why they bring it, they do. the point is they need some place to put it and charging them for it isn't a solution.
the Magnum senario posted way up there on the page is total bs. I've never been on the ride so I don't really know its inner workings, but I have had to cross Arrow trains to put my stuff on the unloading platform and it isn't easy yet I amazingly am able to get back into my seat before the people exiting leave the platform. I'll admit that a seatbelt will complicate things, but the whole senario seems to be bad train engineering.
putting your stuff at your feet is a solution, but not for all rides. take B&M coasters for example where there isn't much of a car around you. also, hypers with forceful air time won't be a good ride to put your bag at your feet.
with the exception of dual station rides, there is no reason not to have a place in the station to store your things. it doesn't reduce capicity because the people putting their things in the boxes are back in their seats and restrained before the people leaving are even half way out of the station and the train can't leave with people in the station. plus I have never seen a locker large enough to hold one of those giant stuffed animals.
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Knott's Berry Farm Cuba ~South Park

quailroberts said:
"Once again anyone that even hints at criticizing the smallest detail at CP is ridiculed. Notice how the CP defenders here keep getting more and more irrational? It's cause they're running out of arguments to defend a policy that is flat out dumb."
Hahahahahahaha! You're joking, right? Flying tampons and people stripping to their underwear to change clothes in line are rational? That's rich!
This isn't about Cedar Point, it's about rides in general anywhere that do things this way.
Jeremy: Different types of rides, my man. Indeed Raptor operates that way as well, because it's easy to pass through, drop stuff and climb aboard. In the MF example, it's not easy because of the dual stations. Ditto for the Volcanos and FOF's of the world.
PointMan: Yeah, kids, I know. One of my best friends and moderator Tim (The One and Only Coaster God) has two of them. They bring a wagon, carry fanny packs, and when they were younger, used parent swap. Nothing brought in line, ever. As for your wife in a wheelchair, I don't remember what MF does (the queue was designed to be wheel chair accessible, as many wheelchair-bound people prefer not to get the special treatment), but you can certainly park that chair and everything on it at the exit platform and board there. No hassle at all.
Koaster King: I'm not even going to bother responding to someone who presumes to know more about life when he coaches kids older than he is. Besides, Natalie took down every one of your responses in grand form.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Hostilities: You make a couple really good points. Maybe if the parks provide the junk, they should provide a place to put the junk, free of charge. However, I don't think the place for the junk should be on the station floor. The stuff just causes too many problems (safety and capacity wise). Think pumped up 13 year olds, basketballs, and stuffed animals the size of Gary Coleman. Oh yeah, don't forget those wonderful inflatable bats.

Are the free lockers at IOA avilable throughout the park, or just for certain rides? Do they actually lock, or are they just a bin? If they're free, all over the place, and lock, this seems like a great solution. Who knows, maybe people would buy more of the parks goods if there was somewhere to stick it.

Pointman and skysox: You guys make excellent points as well. I'm a single guy who does live and travel like a Spartan. I can see that taking a gang of kids to the park would be a lot more involved than just taking myself, and would require a piece of luggage or two.

That being said, I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that if it wasn't the end of November, and we all weren't bored, nobody would really be making that much of an issue out of any of this. ;)
#1, #1, Joe Rizza Ford is #1 (I know I'm a biter, but I couldn't resist.)
*** This post was edited by chris on 11/29/2001. ***