Magic Mountain 2/18/06---Sheep to the Slaughter!

Funny thing is that my grandparents said the same thing about the generation after them? I just wonder if part of growing up is learning to appreciate courtesy. Not that most of us weren't courteous as kids. It's just we didn't notice as much when we were younger.

That being said, it certainly seems like a lot of parents let their kids walk all over them. Perhaps they feel guilty about not giving them enough quality time (both parents working to pay a ridiculous mortgage, etc.). So perhaps there is some truth to it. I've seen it. But I also distinctly remember growing up with kids who were raised the same way. Now I work with some of them. It isn't pleasant. But it's good excersize for my patience. So it's a good thing....really. ;)

Back to the kids working at the park. That attitude is allowed by management. OK...allowed might not be a good description since managers aren't there 24/7. But their attitude and management style rub off. And who promotes the managers? Goes all the way to the top. And are the promotions based on customer service or performance? (a problem with this idea, though, is that I'm assuming that an employee who performs well as a regular employee makes a good manager...but that's another discussion)

When I first started working on the Whizzer in Santa Clara, my supervisor Dave was great. He really had a positive attitude towards the job without being overbearing.Even though we dealt with large numbers of people, we never forgot they were people. And when certain corporate cultures evolve to see people not as dollar bills but people, the dollar bills will flow like sweet honky tonk wine. ;)

"Sometimes a paper cup is on a midway. Sometimes the trains are stacked. SOmetimes the ride breaks down when you are behind the airgate."

And sometimes these things happen all at once on the day you visit. And sometimes these things happen at a particular park EVERY time you visit. And sometimes you post a factual thread that points out the obvious AND fanboys (had to get that in there) will come at you personally rather than deal with facts!

I've come to expect and even enjoy the predictable.

P.S. I thinkwe should have everybody give their age in the sig line so we can begin to understand if there is indeed a generational gap. I really think this may be the case as it seems like it is all us "old farts" who even take the time to point out customer service AND rely less on coaster details!

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2Hostyl said: (numbered for easier reading)
RGW wrote:

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What IS it with the "woodsy" feel of my posts lately?

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1) Maybe because most forests are far away from the ocean and thus you dont have to worry about the ROLL of the TIDE? :)

2) Kinda like in the political areana when someone disagree with the current course of action they are dubbed 'unpatriotic' just for dissenting. (but I digress)

3) And I really dont get the "service" industry thing. It suprised me, when I started dating after college that it was considered "impressive" to women just when I held a door or pulled out a chair or walked on the curbside of the sidewalk. Personally, I was raised to consider these things the *minimum* not something extraordinary.

4) I wish I knew why/when this changed.

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Point 1: I'm *hoping* it has more to do with this fantastic trio of new wood I hope to ride this year (Rumbler, Voyage, Toro). My college hoops season is on life support (normal for this time of year, LOL), the wood is on the rise!

Point 2: Point well made/taken, and a perfectly valid argument. But when a few well-meaning individuals can't see that there ARE, in fact, areas needing improvement ("America, love it or leave it" sound familiar?) then you have to question who the real patriot is....no? Voices of dissent are what made America great over 200 years ago, why should we change that NOW?

Point 3: Chivalry isn't dead...but it IS also on life support....along with my hoops team...:(

Point 4: I think it changed when moms went to work and kids starting raising themselves...but I'm willing to be wrong on that. My mom worked out of the home, so I got no relief at all...LOL!

*** Edited 2/28/2006 3:32:36 PM UTC by rollergator***

Janfrederick, You said "Blah blah blah" (way back on page 3) like what you were saying is normal everyday common knowledge. To us it is, but I think that a lot more people are ignorant of these ideas and beliefs.

I somewhat believe that these days not everyone knows the value of common courtesy. I think that some people, be it employees or patrons, think that they are never going to see you again so why should they be nice. The people who are nice may start getting jaded because the ones they interact with are not nice, creating a vicious circle.

...Perhaps.

*** Edited 2/28/2006 9:46:05 PM UTC by dexter***

(27 years young)

I kinda agree that there is somewhat of a gap in values of todays youth. I can only say from a personal point of view that I didn't have to work for too much while growing up, but my PARENTS made sure that I wasn't a dis-respectful bas***d! The problem in my eyes is that parents are so pre-occupied with their own thing leaving kids to raise themselves or worse, be raise by their friends. That's why I'm not shocked so much to see or hear about these short comings. Nothing is going to improve unless responsible adults do their jobs/duties as a real parent.

Dexter said:

"I somewhat believe that these days not everyone knows the value of common courtesy. I think that some people, be it employees or patrons, think that they are never going to see you again so why should they be nice. The people who are nice may start getting jaded because the ones they interact with are not nice, creating a vicious circle".

Excellent point! I see this circle more and more in everyday life. I'll never forget about a year ago I was at Knott's and a VERY friendly employee was saying hello and welcome to everyone who entered the park, with a big smile on his face. People were laughing and smirking as they walked by, not returning the friendliness. One person even call him a "tool" for being so nice.

Now on one hand, he's getting paid to be nice and "endure" the responses he gets. But being *human*, everyday a little piece of that good will has got to die, no matter how many times you tell yourself "it doesn't matter".

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Kinda like in the political areana when someone disagree with the current course of action they are dubbed 'unpatriotic' just for dissenting. (but I digress)

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Fanboy = Unpatriotic = Racist

These are three words that I indeed recognize as overused. And more importantly, the sting has long since abolished. I myself might have thrown around “fanboy” too lightly (though I’m not sure) as I certainly like the way it easily rolls off the keyboard. However, when utilized so frequently, these words can indeed be nothing more than weak discrediting tools in absence of simple counter-arguing/debating skills. In other words, when you cannot win the debate, or you are just too stubborn to recognize the strengths/validity of those you disagree with, the instant urge is to personally attack. What better tool to use than a single word which has proven to instantly put the opponent on defense?

In terms of relationship to this thread…I’m not sure the prior paragraph describes what has happened. I must go back to the facts. Nobody has disputed the events as they were reported. This is because the events as reported indeed happened. Instead we’ve got people attacking the reported events based upon their experiences. Experiences on other hypothetical days…

I’m not sure what the reason could be for doing this, unless they indeed are attempting to discredit the facts absent any evidence to do so. If it is important to get the facts out there that support their counter-argument, why not perform their own trip report? A dated trip report that we could scrutinize and fact check for accuracy. Do you honestly believe I would come on here and make stuff up about Magic Mountain knowing that any Magic Mountain thread would instantly invite multiple hits, and therefore also expose myself to good chance that somebody else on CB was there the same day?

Those who participate in such tomfoolery might have good reason to be considered fanboys, but as we have seen this thread digress, it has sadly become apparent that fanboy is quickly on its way to becoming a derogatory term to those who are easily offended.

Anyhow…what is important here….is that the coaster community come together and find an alternative word to “fanboy.” A word that is every bit as hurtful, scathing, and most importantly accurate in description such that we can easily recognize the unobjective at glance. A word that will get us through the next year or two before somebody points out that we are over-using “it” and thus the sting is long gone.

As curse words are strictly forbidden on CB, I am sad to report that I will not be the one who determines the "new word." I’m sure the creative minds on CB can come up with something though…

...think about it! There was a 13 year-old kid who ten years ago started discrediting Sega console users by creating the term "fanboy." He liked his Sony a lot better. This term now permeates society. Who will be the next 13-year-old genius...? *** Edited 2/28/2006 10:29:23 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

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DWeaver said:
Now on one hand, he's getting paid to be nice and "endure" the responses he gets. But being *human*, everyday a little piece of that good will has got to die, no matter how many times you tell yourself "it doesn't matter".

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I wondered how long it'd take before someone got to this specific point.

I still take the high road.

It's your job, if you can't handle it - get out.

Yep, get out. And be replaced by someone as numb as the guests.

Unfortunately, that *is* what's happening. The good ones get out and go work where they aren't treated like crap, and the ones who don't really care whether you have a good day or not hang around forever. How long was the "stapler" employed by Knott's?;) jk. *** Edited 2/28/2006 11:02:13 PM UTC by DWeaver***

So we're saying it's not SF's fault, but rather it's the nature of things? I'd be inclined to agree with that...

...except that there are other parks that don't have the same problem.

What's the answer? I dunno. If I did I'd be a rich man. ;)

All I know is that there are parks that employees generally consistently deliver exctly the service we're discussing. So what's their secret?

Location? Pay? Training? Benefits? All of the above?

All of the above, with a side order of maturity and self-esteem. Also, some parks are just much better at selecting employees, even within the SF chain.

And despite what people seem to think, in some areas of the country, politeness is more valued than in others. *** Edited 3/1/2006 12:37:08 AM UTC by DWeaver***

And despite what people seem to think, in some areas of the country, politeness is more valued than in others.

Man those kids in the Midwest listen to their parents, huh?

It *is* location, pay, *and* benefits. It's also treating your employees like you do the guests...like you would like to be treated.

They should make a rule about that... :)

Gonch said, in his sexy voice: "So we're saying it's not SF's fault, but rather it's the nature of things? I'd be inclined to agree with that...except that there are other parks that don't have the same problem."

Exactly what I was thinking! How is it that other parks, big and small, all across the nation seem to be able to find teens who take pride in their job and take customer service seriously?

I'll tell ya how:

An employee's attitude about their job as well as their customers comes from directly from their superiors and how they treat the customers and the employees they supervise.

Trickle down, baby...that's the ticket ;)

*** Edited 3/1/2006 5:26:28 AM UTC by Mamoosh***

Moosh, You are talking about HW, right?

I seem to remember Raven Maven once saying that their employees are so nice because of the rural area they get them from, or something like that.

Maybe city kids are the ones we are speaking negatively about.

In the big city of Altoona PA (lol), we have Lakemont and nearby in the Rural town of Tipton we have DelGrosso's. Lakemont's employees are not bad, but I really notice how friendly DelGrosso's are.

Personally speaking, I think a lot of it has to do with the perception of the specific park as a whole.

I worked at Kennywood from 1983 to 1988 and I was damn proud to be working there. I made sure my guests had a good time because of the history and legacy of the park. In turn my crew and I had fun too. It made the long hours pass quickly. Before working there, I was always treated well as a guest so naturally I would treat my guests well.

If the general conception of the park is that it is a dump, there is no pride in working there and doing a good job. The job is not considered "important" enough to warrant your dedication to good customer service. You'll probably give the same service you received as a patron.

Oh what I'd give for a Shame Gun. It's a really cool invention that uses electro magnetic pulses and hyper gps to target the pituitary glands of the targeted person and renders them helplessly full of shame.

The guy at Knott's could have blasted "toolboy" into an apology. Then he could have blasted him with the hunger setting so he'd turn back and get a big steaming plate of Mrs. Knott's fried chicken while he thinks about his moral compass.

That's the one thing that made life difficult while working in a park--toolboys like that guy. But after a while, you learn to laugh at them or feel sorry for them.

But back to Jeffrey's post, Krax, I can understand your point that first impressions tend to color a whole person's outlook. That is, ood first impression = you tend to ignore the bad things, bad first impression = you tend to ignore the good things. But I think he should have given Jeffrey and others credit for trying to have an open mind. After all, he has financial interest in the park doing well...and I'd venture that none of us want to see parks doing poorly. In fact, his response seemed downright insulting. He could have asked, "You sure you weren't jaded by past visits because I never noticed that kind of thing?" to which Jeffrey could have said, "No, I tried to keep an open mind, I wanted to have a good time, but the park seems to have a long way to go still." Then Krax could have said, "I guess we disagree then."

Then, and only then, after Krax had been courteous, Jeffrey could have called him a tool for being so nice. And since the Shame Gun doesn't work over the internet, we'd all be out of luck. ;)

dex asked "Moosh, You are talking about HW, right?"

Not specifically, no. I said, "...other parks, big and small, all across the nation seem to be able to find teens who take pride in their job and take customer service seriously?"

You can find great employees anywhere. But my example above shows they may not stay that way if the atmosphere in which they work doesn't reward their efforts.

First off, thanks Richie for the compliment. I really appreciate it. Never thought I'd see my name mentioned in a TR about SFMM.

So I guess that gives me an excuse to add my $0.02 to the discussion. My disclaimer is that I've never been to MM so I've never met Amy or the rest of the gang. But I do think I'm well equipped to comment on customer service or lack thereof.

Dragonoffrost, you posted my thoughts regarding the pre-ride spiel. I was sort of surprised nobody jumped on it earlier. It IS the employee's job to read the instructions (if they weren't important, the park wouldn't have it written down and posted at the control panel). And it's also the employee's job to watch the ride cycle like a hawk. It's not about "eye-sex." If an accident were to happen, every lawyer in the state would be drooling over a police report that said the operator wasn't paying attention at the time.
And a sharp lawyer would jump on the fact that an op didn't give any instructions before the ride started. If for no other reason than CYA, you do it.

Here's a customer service example for you. Across the street from my office is a small strip mall with 4 various eating establishments. At three of them, the employees are courteous and pleasant. They indulge in chit-chat with the customers. Nothing too involved but nothing fake either. And they always say thank you and enjoy your meal. The fourth? Everytime I go in there I'm made to feel that by expecting someone to wait on me, I'm depriving them of doing what they'd really rather be doing. So guess which place I patronize the least? If I feel that way over an 8 dollar lunch, imagine how I'd feel over a visit to a park that will cost me well over 50 bucks before all is said and done.

I don't agree with a lot of the things Shapiro and his crew are trying to do, but I highly agree with the improved customer service they're going for. Amy and the others should thank their lucky stars that it wasn't Shapiro or his family at the park that day. They wouldn't ever have to worry about reciting the spiel or actually watching the ride again. But then maybe that's what they really want.

My final comment on courtesy-- While I don't know if things have gotten worse with each generation, what I find interesting today is that at the same time people don't feel any need to be courteous or respectful toward others, they're so quick to complain that people are "disrespecting" them. Everybody knows the "Do unto others" part, but they forget the "as you would have them do to you" part.

RGB, I went back a few time to see through the messages between Moosh's post and when I posted cause I thought someone who worked at a park that posts here would surely have jumped on that point. Especially someone who worked at a non SF Park.

I am the same way on any business and such. Bad customer service = I will not be back unless I have no option left or someone else wants to go there. Good thing my local park has started to understand customer service or I would be driving almost 2 hours to Hershey for my coaster fix more than I drive north for about 45 minutes. Then again I have decided on making Hershey almost a monthly stop this season so who knows maybe I did start to choose the better customer service there also.