Magic Mountain 2/18/06---Sheep to the Slaughter!
Associated parks:
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AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf
Mamoosh said:
kRaXLeRidAh said: And this rude employee and trash everywhere talk is really all myth.So, fan boy, you're telling me I made up the stories about Amy & Kelly and others? I was not at SFMM alone that day...I have three other witnesses. Heck, I haven't been to an amusement park alone in about 10 years!
Everything I reported was true and factual without any agenda. If you or anyone chooses not to believe me that's your choice.
mOOSH
If that fanboy accusation is directed at me, I want you to know I'm hardly one, really. Why don't you go back and reread that huge post of yours, very carefully (I know you wrote it, but reading it again afterwards it takes on a completely different face) and tell me your complains aren't the most petty and miniscule of nitpicking.
The girl taking my $15 at the toll booth gave up a half-hearted "Have a good day" as if she wished she was home [not making any money].
She isn't required to tell you "have a good day." Her saying it, "half-heartedly" (to you) or not, is still effort in making the guest feel welcome. I don't believe for a second anybody else in your carpool actually noticed or cared to remember the non-100% "I want to throw you a party" tone she used when she asked you to have a good day.
But when we got into the park there was a group of WB characters standing in front of Revolution Plaza and all was forgiven.
All was forgiven? What? Did her (to you) "half-hearted" 'Have a nice day' offend you to a point where it was needed to be forgiven? Please. You remind me of one of those restaurant customers that throws a sissy fit when they don't get a straw with their Sprite. God. At least the girl showed some effort, and for all you know that really was her best attempt as saying it genuinely. You just happened to downsize her gesture of good will into a nitpick.
Amy, the girl operating Buccaneer [Intamin Swing Ship] neither spoke one single word nor made eye contact with any of the riders in my cycle. No ride spiel either although it was taped to her consule with the words, "Must Be Recited Every Ride Cycle." A broken mic is no excuse...the ride op stand is right next to the ride and she could have easily said it to everyone without shouting.
Her job description does not ask her to speak "a single word" nor to "make eye contact" with riders. It is to operate the attraction, without distraction. You HAVE to tell me, what is it about you that you always find the need to lock eyes with the operator. Nobody I know stares at the ride operator and observes how they don't make eye contact or interact with the riders. Hmmm. My guess is that while most people are having fun with their party on the ride, they don't notice how Amy isn't interacting with them, or could really care less if she doesn't spit a happy-go-lucky spiel into the microphone.
Thankfully after we got off Buccaneer Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig walked by and magically I forgave the park for having such a lousy employee.
Thankfully? As if Amy's non-spiel giving, non-eye contact was ripping your insides apart and causing you agony? Give ME A BREAK. She's not a lousy employee. Was she not doing her job efficiently and correctly? Why don't you make eye contact and talk with your friends (that's if you actually had some with you during your visit) and let Amy do her job.
Kelly, who was operating Swashbuckler [the Chance Yo-Yo right next door] did her opening spiel but then stared off into space during the ride, never watching to make sure everything was OK. And when the ride ended she forgot her closing spiel.
Again, Moosh believes rather than let Kelly do her job by operating the ride and wait 'til everybody has fun and gets off -- he expects her to do a karaoke performance, juggle bowling pins, or line dance -- while people are on a Waveswinger ride. So she stared off into space while the ride was in operation. BIG DEAL. What did you want her to do instead? Have eye-sex with you instead? And I'm sure she did watch the ride sporadically, unknowingly you were apparently watching her, her each and every move and where she looked. Weirdo. She forgot her closing spiel? Odd it was so disturbing to you that you would actually remember that after a long day at the park. I'm sure after her daily average of 50 or more spiels, you could be kind enough not to get agitated and let her mistake slide. We're all human, aren't we?
My point is Moosh, your examples are hardly anything to make anybody's visit to a park undesirable. I've seen worse at parks across the board, and if your mood and enjoyment of the park can be effected so easily by the most petty things you encounter at the park, then I really don't know what to say to you. I suppose you'd critique fast food places the same way. "UGH. The lady at the Jack in the Box DID NOT smile when she handed me my change, she made NO eye contact, she didn't give her spiel and I GOT NO KETCHUP! This place is LOUSY!"
EDITED for spelling and some grammar. *** Edited 2/25/2006 3:21:46 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***
I think these are exactly the things that SFMM (and other SF parks) need to address. Parks aren't too fun if you don't feel welcome, but it's awfully easy to smooth over the hard feelings of many closed rides, high prices, and the other issues with a simple smile and maybe a kind word.
I think it's scary that SFMM has beaten you regular visitors into submission and into believing this sort of thing doesn't matter.
"Hey we got 17 coasters, who cares?"
The funny thing is that some of the most highly regarded parksa mong enthusiasts have much less to offer, but people clamor to keep coming back.
Why?
Because they make you want to.
I'll just take this thread as good news that spring must be right around the corner.
1) An endless thread involving either SFMM, World's Of Fun or SFA!
2) Endless speculation about Cedar Point's next ride.
3) Endless use of the word, "fanboy"(can't we find a new word? Fanboy just doesn't have the sting it did 4 or 5 years ago). ;)
4) These threads always appear around FEB-March, when people start to get ansy about their favorite parks opening.
5) Lesson for the day: SFMM sucks, but so what? They've got WB cartoon characters! ;)
Lord Gonchar said:
That's so disappointing to me. It seems like such a crappy attitude towards things. I can't imagine being so accepting of mediocrity in life - both as a customer and as an employee.
On the contrare - You sir, are the one with the "crappy attitude towards things." You along with Moosh. What irony you use that against me. You point a finger at me, but three are pointing right back at you.
Mediocracy in pertainance to particular parks is all relative. I saw a lot of "trash/debris/articles" lying around at Cedar Point underneath Mantis and Wildcat and in some parts in Frontier Town; (when I visited in summer of 2002 for three days in a row); no employees interacted over microphones with guests in the queue; there were no "have a nice day" or "enjoy your meal" phrases spoken to me and my party during the visit; and Gemini only ran one side. So what does my observation imply? That Cedar Point is mediocre? NO.
It's because people choose to see the bad things about parks if they put their mind to it, realizing it or not. And that's regardless of how severe the situation is from park to park. If you go into the park with a mindset towards fun and a good attitude and perspective on things, you won't have a bad time, even if you tried.
Don't get me wrong here, I enjoyed both Cedar Point and Magic Mountain. The only reason I used Cedar Point as an example is because it was perfect for this particular argument. I saw as much "mediocricy" (as you called and described it) at Cedar Point, yet the park is talked about as if it has a clean record. I'm not making this a SFMM vs. CP war. The argument was on the basis of backing up my argument about how this idea of "mediocricy" is all relative. And now that I think of it, there is a strong biast on this forum whether any of you admit it or not.
I think it's scary that SFMM has beaten you regular visitors into submission and into believing this sort of thing doesn't matter.
Excuse YOU. Who are you to say that my enjoyment of the park is a result of them beating me into submission into a belief that "this sort of thing doesn't matter." What sort of thing? The rude employees that aren't really rude, but just because they don't have a smile plastered on their face 24/7 they get labeled "rude" or "apathetic"? The so-called "trash all over the place" that I hardly see anywhere? Where's all this trash and garbage I hear about lying all over the midways like I read about so frequently? I enjoy the park because I find no reason to make my enjoyment of the park bad. I see no use to complain or b*tch if an employee doesn't smile at or make eye contact with me during a ride.
EDIT for spelling and some grammar. *** Edited 2/25/2006 5:57:18 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***
kRaXLeRidAh said:
What did you want her to do instead? Have eye-sex with you instead?
LOL, I'm sure that's the last thing on his mind.
wooo..weee It's getting hot in herre!! I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I went to magic mountain and noticed indifferent employees, inefficient ride operations and numerous ride closures. I was not a happy camper that day. My gf on the other hand, had a blast and thought it was the best park in the world. My conclusion, I may be a bit jaded!
*** Edited 2/25/2006 6:06:13 AM UTC by Antuan***
Now I will be making my first trip to SFMM & KBF this coming June, I am trying not to have any expectations in regards to the overall operations of the parks, out side of the coasters. I know that if you go to a park will the idea that it's going to suck, then it probably will suck. I have had great experiences and horrible experiences at various parks. Take CP I love the park and yes I have had a few bad experiences that could have gone a lot better, but I still love the park and I know that the good out ways the bad. However I have been to SFKK and vowed never to go back. I have been there twice and each time was terrible.
But one thing is for sure: The trip reports are nothing more than someone telling their experience at a park for that day, and many times the trip report isn't too far off from the experience that I am going to have. I might disagree allot but many times the person's opinions are in the ballpark. The one thing that has been constant over the years is that the trip reports for SFMM have yet to change; I wish they would but that is up to SF to fix that.
There is no such thing as a terrible Coaster just ones that haven't been taken care of
Krax said:
Excuse YOU. Who are you to say that my enjoyment of the park is a result of them beating me into submission into a belief that "this sort of thing doesn't matter."
I dunno. Just sticking with your mindset. That comment (and your obvious heated reaction) strike me as hysterical being as you keep saying:
It's because people choose to see the bad things about parks if they put their mind to it, realizing it or not.
I guess the real response is Excuse YOU! You keep telling us that everyone goes in looking for the bad. Who are you to say everyone's lack of enjoyment of the park is the result of "choosing to see the bad."
Don't get me wrong here, I enjoyed both Cedar Point and Magic Mountain.
As did I. I've only been to SFMM once, but it wasn't horrible. Never said it was. In fact, all 15 (at the time) coasters were running and I didn't think it was excessively dirty either. I did think the employees sucked nut, but they do at almost all SF parks.
...no employees interacted over microphones with guests in the queue; there were no "have a nice day" or "enjoy your meal" phrases spoken to me and my party during the visit... So what does my observation imply? That Cedar Point is mediocre? NO.
Again, in your blind love for SFMM, you're putting words into my mouth. I never said SFMM was mediocre, I never said rides being down makes the park mediocre, I never said it's dirty and that makes it mediocre. I said the attitude/effort/work ethic of their employees was mediocre. And it is. And it hurts the park experience for me (and other apparently).
I stand by my opinion that I think it's a shame that you don't appreciate, expect nor see the importance of general courtesy - especially from any employee who interacts with customers.
I find no reason to make my enjoyment of the park bad. I see no use to complain or b*tch if an employee doesn't smile at or make eye contact with me during a ride.
Yeah, you've made that quite clear. You don't understand the concept of customer service...or maybe you do and truly don't care. You also don't realize how ridiculous it sounds. When you repeat it ad maseum I keep hearing, "Take my money and treat me like a nuisance, I don't care."
Granted, you don't see it that way, but obviously many do.
The rude employees that aren't really rude, but just because they don't have a smile plastered on their face 24/7 they get labeled "rude" or "apathetic"?
Rude? Never said it. Apathetic? Again, never said it, but it's a great general descriptive term for the SFMM employees. I need to start using that in addition to mediocre.
And now that I think of it, there is a strong biast on this forum whether any of you admit it or not.
Not sure. I'm looking up biast. ;)
As for a bias or CB users being biased? Perhaps. Or possibly the general user base of regulars tends to be older than the kiddies populating most forums and they expect and appreciate more subtle things than just riding roller coasters.
I suspect the latter. And I suspect you just don't get it.
When I am a "guest" at a park, I always say, "Thank you" to the employees. I say it because it is common courtesy that my Mother taught me. I expect the same from them, but sometimes do not get it.
I read somewhere a while ago that because we have been spoiling our children so much that they have trouble being kind and courteous when they grow up. This is becoming more noticable to me when I encounter employees of my local fast food joints and department stores (even some of the people I work with).
Bottom line is that, in everyday life people are not as respectful to one another as they should be, imho. I can also flip this around and say that some patrons of a business will not show respect to the workers as well.
I see SF as having only Two major problems, lethargic employees and greed, and by greed I am not even talking about the prices. I am talking about the money saving attitude they have by keeping trains in the transfer tracks and rides closed.
edit-Spelling error *** Edited 2/25/2006 7:29:09 AM UTC by dexter***
Actually, I find LG and Moosh to be among the most "fair and balanced" people here. You can bet that if either of them visited SFMM and noticed improvements, they'd be the first ones to very happily report them. Sorry Krax, your way off base here my friend.
Speaking purily for myself, I want so badly for SFMM to return to the type of park I used to be able to brag about, that I will support even the money, publicity hungry Dan Snyder/Mark Shapiro team if they can make even one third of their promises happen.
There are people who hate SFMM just for the sake of hating the park, and really don't want to see any improvement strickly out of spite.
Neither LG, Moosh nor myself are those people.
dexter said:
When I am a "guest" at a park, I always say, "Thank you" to the employees.
I have a habit of doing the same thing. Especially when directly assisted.
I'm not stopping the ops doing the quick restraint check, but on a ride like SFOG's Great Gasp for instance (I know it's gone, it's just the first to come to mind) where the op specifically unlocks you and only your 'chute' after the ride, I always thank them. Or if I'm first off a ride and an employee is at the exit gate and opens it, I thank them there too.
It's a two way street. I'm not some pompous dickwad expecting a kid making a couple bucks an hour to personally kiss my royal ass all day long. Just look like you're having fun, make me feel welcome - basically do your job - and I'll gladly return the kindness.
I have no personal vendetta against a park I've been to once and probably won't see again for a few years at least. I know what I saw and I know what people continually write in TR's that I read. As much as the conspiracy theory is fun to think, there is no concerted effort between dozens and dozens of people from across the USA who have never met to publically put down one specific park.
It is what it is and what it is right now is a whole lot of people over the past few years clearly not impressed with what they experienced at SFMM. I have cautious confidence that the new regime at SF is starting to see these little things that make some parks great and will impliment them as promised. If they do, I'm sure SFMM will take the place it should already occupy among the greatest parks in the world.
I look forward to reading TR's all year long and trying to assess whether or not these guys reach their desired goal.
Lord Gonchar said:
As much as the conspiracy theory is fun to think, there is no concerted effort between dozens and dozens of people from across the USA who have never met to publically put down one specific park.
Well there, my friend, I have to disagree with you. I think that there *is* an effort by *some* to pile on (either praise or criticism) in an attempt to "fit in" with the prevailing tones in enthusiast circles. Can I prove this? Nope, not at all. But it just certain things that I find 'strange' that are reported on these and other forums.
I find it odd that when a coaster is razed, suddenly there appear all these misty-eyed comments about them. Even while living, these coasters were generally regarded as "bad" (e.g Steel Phantom, Drachen Frye). You have polls on this particular board where CP is regularly nominated for "Best Food", yet Disney parks such as Epcot are suprisingly absent. It's become a running gag on here that B&Ms are so "forceless" that even the biggest one in North America is compared to sleep medicine. And you have so many people on here talking about the GREATNESS of an at best mediocre flat ride: Flyers! (okay, maybe that last one is a personal vendetta =])
Sure, there was no great meeting of the five families to set an "Enthusiast Agenda", but liike with any group, I feel there are a lot of 'poseurs' in the 'Amen Corner' who just want to fit in.
But I'm known as "The Hostile One" so take that with a grain (or maybe even a whole shaker) of salt.
lata, jeremy
P.S, Did I ever mention I liked Hercules? =]
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
I definitely get a sense, especially among newer members, of the "me, too" attitude. Don't dare say anything bad about CF, for example. Hell, I happen to think they have a great business going, but sometimes it gets friggin' ridiculous.
Who was that one guy who said he'd "defend Geauga Lake to the death"? Astounding.
Of course, I come here as much for the humor as I do for the coasters. And I'm indeed laughing at and not with many people.
Also, that thing about Lord Gonchar not being a dickwad? Totally untrue.
Hi
What you are saying is we are all (or a lot of us) like "sheep to the slaughter!" This 3-page trip report has come full circle! :-)
P.S. It was a trip report folks and nothing more. An "in your face" account of MY day and MY experience. Everybody has different expectations and desires. I suspect there is a lot to be said about the "being older" comment above as I'm sure my report would have been a lot different if I wrote it 10-years ago. When I was younger I would have never noticed employee attitudes, nor cared too much, for one small example!
P.P.S. In general...Disney food sucks!
Here you have a Philly guy, coming out to Callifornia for WCS, and planning on doing the Rideworld event that Sunday.
That being said, Magic Mountain is in No way, shape, or form, my local park, so I should be considered as a, unbiased judge, of the overall park experience while I'm there. So To all of you MM supporters, and detractors, be prepared for the truth after my visit.
I guarantee that one side will not agree with me, and get just as offensive with me, as you have been with all of the other responses in this thread.
Sure, there was no great meeting of the five families to set an "Enthusiast Agenda", but liike with any group, I feel there are a lot of 'poseurs' in the 'Amen Corner' who just want to fit in.
I think that sums it up. Any group will have a small segment of can't-think-for-myself-me-too types. But that's far from the claims of intentionally slamming certin parks while doing the opposite for others. It just doesn't happen.
Anyone who's been here for any period of time knows who's who in the scheme of things. When someone with 1 post and the screen name "CPRulzSucka" posts a scathing TR on SFMM, you blow it off. When JRS posts one, I tend to give it more merit. JRS has no problem disagreeing with the pack. :)
Newbies trying to 'fit in' is not a conspiracy.
In fact, we seem to quickly have forgotten this TR in which nothing but good things and good wishes for SFMM are expressed. To me it shows how wanting of change at SFMM people really are. No seemed to complain that the TR was biased or it was a conspiracy to make the park look good. The poster had a good time saw positive change and everyone accepted and commented...much like this TR.
The funny thing is that Krax is still there picking out the one remotely negative comment and ripping it.
Sometimes you gotta wonder who truly has an 'agenda' when you really dig in and read this stuff.
Also, that thing about Lord Gonchar not being a dickwad? Totally untrue.
If you'd just follow me around the park kissing my royal ass then we'd be kosher. I suggest you talk to a few people you work with the next time I show up and make it happen.
I'd hate to have to cooridnate another planned attack on a park. Organizing hundreds of people I've never met or talked to can be a daunting task. It's much easier if you just appease me.
*** Edited 2/25/2006 5:49:10 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
It seems you don't truly understand how far reaching and powerful the conspiracy is.
I'm not naming ANY names, but I think after a few, or 5 or 6, years of being here that I've gotten a pretty good feeel of who really strives for objectivity...I try VERY hard to put myself in that camp, and I sinceerely hope I succeeed at that...
I like to be liked (who doesn't?), but I'd really RATHER be trustworthy...
My *opinions* reflected here and elsewhere do NOT suggest that I have a bad time while at a park. I can count on one hand the number of truly negative park experiences I've had. But on the board here, I thought part of the point was to praise the good and to *constructively criticize* those things needing improvement...it's been my experience that SFMM typically shows more of the latter.
The SoCal'ers (and others) "complaining" here probably remember when SFMM was on par or even better for them than DL or Knott's...if the parks WANT to improve, I think a lot of their shortcomings are pointed out for them to resolve. It's been my impression from my last 4-5 trips to SoCal that Del Holland simply didn't feel it was worth the effort when all the new construction kept the same clientele coming back to the park REGARDLESS of operations or staff that didn't seem to care...
There's not many people out there that would LOVE to see SFMM turn things around as much as I would...or so I tell myself while guzzling the Kool-Aid... ;)
kRaXLeRidAh said:
I'm not making this a SFMM vs. CP war. The argument was on the basis of backing up my argument about how this idea of "mediocricy" is all relative. And now that I think of it, there is a strong biast on this forum whether any of you admit it or not.
....but for someone reason, you ALWAYS seem to make it into a SFMM v CP war. You are the most hypocritical poster out of everyone on this board. You say you could care less about what people think about MM, but yet, you are the MAIN one always trying to counter-attack anyone's trip report, opinions, etc.
Futhermore, if you feel this board has SO much bias towards CP and so much anti-bias towards MM (as you claim) why continue to stay on. RRC posts a lot worst things about MM than here, why aren't you on that board defending MM like they insulted your family or something???
100th coaster....Dania Beach Hurricane!
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