letter to editor attacks SFWoA
Do you live in a vacuum? No one in Cleveland knows what Kennywood is. Kennywood doesn't market here either. Clevelanders have been going to KI since it opened. Columbus folks have split their time between KI, CP and Geauga Lake for decades. Markets overlap. You're struggling to find a point where there isn't one. SFWoA shares the Columbus market with PKI, and therefore competes. Why is that so hard to understand?
Koaster King said:
And KW isn't close enough to compete with SFWOA for Cleveland people? They certainly have two different things to offer. Make up your mind on what parks do what things.
And enough about the RIAA. That's an advocacy group, not a news agency. It has nothing to do with anything.
I feel like I'm stuck in a loop.
I feel like I'm stuck in a loop.
I feel like I'm stuck in a loop.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Round and round ya go. :)
I still think you Ohio folks are spoiled. :)
My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.
Koaster King said:
I really do think so coasterdude. Just because I decide to go to Six Flags Magic Mountain in California because they have more coasters over Valleyfair! doesn't mean they're in competiton with each other.
Ah, but it does. SFMM and VF would be in competition for *your* dollar. That's not to say those two parks are in any *serious* competition because one person is not going to make a difference. But if you as a consumer can actually make a choice between buying one product over another (in this case a day at a park) then it's competition. Similarly, if people were to seriously take your advice and begin choosing other marine parks over SFWoA, then there *would* be serious competition there.
That's weighing your decision on what's more valued to yourself in what you want to do.
What, exactly, do you think competition is??? You basically defined the essence of it right there!
In operations and ride uptime, I don't think and have never said they could even hold a candle to PKI and CP. That's completely fabricated by yourself from what I originally said.
Considering I didn't say ish about CP and/or PKI, you should identify who you're talking to before using "yourself".
-Nate *** Edited 1/2/2004 6:31:11 AM UTC by coasterdude318***
I can honestly say I have never had a bad day at any other park. I am not saying I have not seen rude employees or things that bothered me at other parks because I have. I don't let one employee being rude to ruin a day, but when there is consistant problems in one visit, it ruins the day. SFWOA seems to have those consistant problems to ruin a day. I think the problems have went way past just us noticing them. The GP is much aware of the problems which explains attendance drop and public letters of complaint like this one. I know this complaint is just one person's opinion. But I ask you, do you honestly think this is the only person with the same views?? Another question, do you see these type of public complaints at other Ohio parks??? I for have never seen another letter of complaint about a Ohio park. I am sure there have been some at some point but lately? It all explains why SFWOA attendance is dropping.
Some of you can say the numbers are wrong and you are entitled to that opinion. But I think a majority of us agree this numbers are correct. If they weren't, as someone stated, why hasn't SF stepped into to disagree?? A major company like SF would publicly disagree on a dramatic error like that. Another thing, there doesnt seem to be much disagreement about other park's numbers. Is a conspiracy by AB against SFWOA? I THINK NOT!!! But you believe what you want. This park is not on the right track and I am beginning to wonder how low the park is going to go before there are dramatic changes. *** Edited 1/2/2004 8:28:44 AM UTC by OhioCoasterGuy***
I went to SFWoA many times last year with my Season Pass, and I will go many times this year too. I will admit that customer service really lacks at times (You know who you are you stupid Taco Hell employee), but at other times it was outstanding. YES, I did say outstanding. The park is also working on cleanliness. Every time I went to the restroom this last year there was always someone in there cleaning up. Every time. No Joke. I rarely saw trash on the ground, and when I did it was just thrown there by the ignorant people who can't walk another 10 feet to throw their *stuff* in the trash can.
As for improvements, yes there does need some work done. Customer service is one area. There were times I was there that I did run into the most horrible employees on the face of the earth, but I don't let them ruin my day. I don't sit around and brood about them and let them get to me, I walk (or ride) it off and go on with my day. Another area is ride operations. They do need to work on getting more rides open on busy days and to use more than one freaking train operations in the middle of July and August.
But after all that rambling on, I still love my park and will continue to support it for as long as I can.
1EyedJack said:
According to the IRAA, they are loosing MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars on illegally copied music. THat is from a horses analyst sitting behind a desk who is not in the field.
Not at all the same situation as the AB article. RIAA is a biased mouthpiece controlled BY the recording industry. AB is not owned, operated, or controlled by Six Flags. Which is going to have more integrity?
--Greg
"You seem healthy. So much for voodoo."
Sarah Jackson said:
I personally love my home park SFWoA. Do I think they need some improvements? Of Course I do. The thing that bothers me is the way people go into this park LOOKING for something to complain about. Yet, at the same time they go into CP with Rose Colored glasses on and see everything in pretty pink.
I agree here. I had a coaster enthusiast friend who worked at CP this summer who went to SFWoA for the first time. I was with him, and I figured he'd be critical. Instead, he went with an open mind and just wanted to have fun. Not once did he try to compare parks or make a ridiculous comment. He had tons of fun because he went with an open mind. Yes, he did realize the park wasn't near perfect, be he didn't let it hamper his day. I respect him for that.
At no time has anyone in this thread said that CP was perfect. Hell, I had one of the single worst experiences in food service ever at CP this year, and I blasted the park for it (it's in fact a trip report on GTTP that won't die). We've all blasted them for the Dragster nonsense too.
I don't think anyone looks for reasons to have a bad time there either. This isn't religion. No one wants to see the park fail. This is still not an emotional issue. When you're used to going to parks like Holiday World where you're treated like a guest, or Cedar Point and Disney where they move lines with the best of them, you have that expectation at other parks. Comparisons are inevitable, and at the end of the day you're going to return to the places that offer the best service. It's a much bigger picture than any one park.
Lori put it best... chances are that we've had some good times at the park, but we've frequently not had good times. I think the thing that nailed it for me was that I got tired of not getting to ride Villain and seeing my favorite flat rides closed. The disgust of my biologist friends on the condition of animal habitats didn't help either (and that's not opinion, that's the expert observation of people who have far more education than you and I combined).
If the park was all superdupergroovyswell, it wouldn't be hurting like it is.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
There's no "agenda" here, there's no (well, very little) unwarranted park bashing, there's nothing that seems out of line.
A repeated mantra from the SFWOA loyalists is "I don't let the bad service ruin my day, I'm there to ride. Just go and have fun and don't worry about the bad stuff - enjoy yourself!"
Basically you're (most of the SFWOA supporters) saying, "you're focusing on the bad, focus on the good and you'll have fun".
I'm sorry, kids, but it doesn't work that way. That's the same "looking at the park though rose colored glasses" that Sarah accuses CP fanboys of doing.
Basically you're telling me it's expecting too much to expect employees to be knowledageable about the park, maybe flash a smile once in a while when checking your restraint, show a bit of enthusiasm with their spiels (more than a monotone "clear....dispatch"), operate rides at a capacity that matches the crowd in the park, show pride in the workplace in general.
That's too much to ask!? Really!? It's too much to ask of the employees to do basically what they were hired to do or for the park to do what I paid for? Talk about lowered expectations...
I've been to 42 parks in the past three years and sure, you occasionally run into a few situations, blow them off and enjoy things - but at SFWOA it's everywhere. It's not just a few ride ops, it's not just one or two coasters running one train, it's not just a little garbage in a awkward area that someone overlooked. It's pretty much the norm. So much so that you find yourself being surprised if you run into someone who does seem to care - rather than the opposite. Of those 42 parks SFWOA was far and away the worst offender in the area of general customer service. Like if I had to rank them, SFWOA would come in at around #50 out of 42 - it was really that bad both times I visited.
That's right...both - once in 2001 and again in 2002. You see, I did give them another chance. I returned hoping things had improved - they hadn't. I shouldn't have to keep trying over and over hoping to get lucky and hit that "good" day. You know what it's called when you pay money to take a chance? Gambling! This shouldn't be the Ohio lottery, it should be as simple as delivering at least an average park experience to the people who pay for that sevice.
It's not a case of hating the park, or expecting too much no matter how many times you say it and try to convince yourselves. It's a case the park failing and more and more people getting tired of it.
I see a lot of you saying it got somewhat better in 2003. Perhaps. I didn't visit this year. Between these hopeful reviews and the fact that I'm now relatively close to the park, I'll probably give it another chance in 2004. But this will be my third try and if they miss this time, it's probably a case of three strikes. There'll be no reason to return in the future. Which is a shame for the park really, because I'm exactly the type of customer they want. I have a family of 4 with kids and disposable income. I'd be willing to pay for upcharge rides, games, food, souvenirs for the kids - I'm the ideal in-park spender.
This is their problem. This is why attendance is dropping. This is why park revenue sucks. Which in turn is why you're not seeing major new attractions put in - which leads back to giving no reason to return.
It's a downward spiral and it already has gone on too long. Something needs to change soon before that hole their digging gets too deep.
*** Edited 1/2/2004 6:52:03 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
As for someone stated the people go in the park looking for things to critize. Yes, this is true about some people but not for me or for a lot of people. Like I stated, I do not let one or two things ruin a day but when there is a list of problems with a park in one visit, how can it be ignored??? You can continue to state well you are looking for problems, so I guess the entire 7% of people were just looking for problems. Considering most of that 7% is GP, I have a hard time believeing they were the most critical general public.
We can sit here and say what needs to change and how SFWOA is not CP or PKI, but the facts are there. SFWOA attenance dropped 7% while other Ohio parks were up 3%.
Chitown said:
I still think you Ohio folks are spoiled. :)
Amen Chi....ROFL. Man, Three parks with coaster selections like *that* (not to mention other smaller ones)....and still room to complain that one of them clearly seems to lag behind the other two in customer service aspects.....what a tough thing for them....;).
If SFI really has "figured it out" as they claim, the turnaround in those areas should be *readily apparent*, and SOON. This would not help them bridge the gap overnight, but trust me, word DOES get around...
Ohioans get more better parks than most because there's LOTS of them and they GO to the parks....profitable market means more competition, which creates the best possible outcome for....consumers!
The whole "focus on the good" thing is cool for US, and I always make sure to have a *superdupergroovyswell* time, LOL....but whether or not I have a good time isn't as important as "Mr. Average Park-goer", he's the guy who you need to impress enough to warrant a return visit...if he DOES come back, he'll bring other people WITH him, and so on.....
bill, noting that the word *attacks* is in the thread title...hmmmmm....
*** Edited 1/2/2004 7:13:48 PM UTC by rollergator***
Three parks with coaster selections like *that
I know I'm in the minority, but I actually need more than a few coasters to have fun at an amusement park. If amusement parks were just asphalt lots with nothing but coasters strewn about, I doubt I'd go.
I don't hate any park (I don't care enough to hate). It's all about fun, atmosphere and a good time. My trip to SFWOA didn't meet any of those expectations, so I choose not to return. It's that simple.
*** Edited 1/2/2004 8:03:12 PM UTC by Gemini***
Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz
Besides the claimed poor customer service, etc., I'm sure not adding a major attraction over two years had something to do with the drop along with the weather. Waldameer claimed a 5% drop due to weather and Conneaut lost about a fourth of their attendance. By that, SFWOA should have done worse and like Jeff mentioned, maybe they did...
Nice posts Jeff and Gonch. It's all extremely understandable. If the park has really shaped up like it has shown me this year, it should be able to speak for itself. If I really have problems with the park though, I won't be afraid to call them out on it. I've complained about smoking in queues many a time at PKI around 2000 and 2001, especially around SOB. They've been very good about it the last couple of years and I'm glad they're a park that listens. I'm a park fan, not a critic, but I still know when something's wrong at a park. No one is bringing up or questioning attendance drops at Dorney (10%) or Knott's (4% while DCA is up 13%) though. My claims from 2001 should still work, right? ;)
-Danny
Man , do you guys know how repetitive these posts get? It's the same people with business facts and park management lies and facts, saying the same thing in every post , just with different fancy words. I'm all for good arguements , but geez , this stuff is like pop music.
The standings.
Against
People who will argue for hours about something that everybody knows they already believe in.
Indifferent
People who had a good experience , and will argue for hours about something that could be said in three words.
For
People who argue for one post , then see the better arguers beat them , and decide it's a lost cause.
---------------
Geez , I'm tired of writing all of these boring Generalizations.[yawn]I wish...they would all....shut up....[snore].
-Tina
(who manages to keep catching SFWOA on their good days).
See, MY argument is that a new *coaster* and/or other highly MARKETABLE attraction will have that immediacy of impact on attendance...customer service is something that has more of a delayed response.
I have attended SFWoA exactly ONCE....even *I* can count to one. :). My experience there was a good one, but for people who attend "regularly", they'll have their own opinions. Those people, IMO, have a much better picture of the overall experience offered by the park, and THEIR recommendations to out-of-town relatives, etc.....THAT is what makes a place grow, or die. In business, there's really not much room for *idling*....;)
A coaster will get you there...once. Going back, that's dictated by the employees more than anything else....YMMV.
Oh Bill, you know you Florida people are just AS spoiled. ;-)
-Tina
*** Edited 1/2/2004 10:39:26 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***
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