Lack of Cedar Point TR's

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Jeff said:

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SLFAKE said:
Also... Why is it that a 2 hour wait at CP on an average to busy day is "perfectly acceptable", while 2 hour waits at other parks on average to busy days would have people complaining?

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I want to know who is standing in two hour lines...

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I wasn't claiming 2 hour lines. I was commenting on the statement made by Coasterbuzzer: "Sorry, but two hour waits for Magnum XL200, Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, or Mantis are perfectly acceptable, unless it's just a really slow day."

For the record, I ran into walk ons or practically walk ons on all coasters (with the exception of Disaster Transport and M-Force, and Raptor), and while those lines were long, they were moving steadily.

(I've already commented on how the near walk on for Magnum turned out to be much longer than I think it should have been thanks to the little act that the ops insisted on putting on.)

You know, Cedar Point used to be my homepark up to 1996, and I was in awe of the place (I was probably very close to fanboy-land). I still think it's a good, well-run park, but something happens when you get a little older and have the money to travel. You realize that there are other parks out there that are capable of creating the same kind of magic, and they don't need record breakers every 2 years to acheive it.

With the building of TTD, I feel the park hit a ceiling as far as getting my attention with just thrillrides. Anything I can ride at CP, I can find something close to it without traveling the distance it takes to get out there. What they lack now IMO is uniqueness, attractions that you can't find in your own backyard. That's what keeps me interested in the Disney and Universal parks over the years.

I'm sorry, but the magic of Cedar Point has exactly zero to do with record breakers.

Are you speaking for yourself, or me as well?

Because for me Cedar Point's appeal had mostly to do with it's coasters, there wasn't much else that I couldn't get in almost any other state with a fair share of parks. Now, there are multiple parks that offer coasters that can compete with Cedar Point's collection, and in some cases, trump them.

That leaves some waterparks, none of which are my favorites. Some good shows (the ones at Knott's are comparable), and some terrific operations (not worth a plane ticket though). I never found the "atmosphere" to be all that, especially compared to Busch or even Holiday World.

So what am I missing?

So, are you saying Cedar Point is average, or that it's cool, but not worth a long trip? I don't think I'd travel far if my only goal was to ride a few coasters. Is this a case where a coaster enthusiast just can't see the forest through the lift hills?

I really don't feel like going into the same old and tired argument. You know, the one where I talk about the resorts, the beach, the lake, the collection of rides, the atmosphere, the tradition, the history (collectively known as the source of the magic)... and then someone comes back and says how Cedar Point sux now, and there are no trees, and the rides don't work, etc. No thanks. :)

But I will say that Cedar Point is much more than sprinting from one coaster to the next. Some people like to do it that way, and that's too bad. Yeah, it's not the only beach in the world. And there are plenty of waterparks. But I think the total package is pretty cool. There aren't many amusement parks that can offer all that in one place.

I guess that "magic" is also in the eye of the beholder. Call me a fangirl if you want, but there is something about driving up that causeway that gets me in the stomach every single time. After 40 years it's still there.

I've been when it's nothing but wall to wall people and have done nothing more than ride a few flats, see a couple of shows, walk along the beach and just take in the sights. I've wandered the park all day in the rain. I've been there on days when the temps are perfect, the sun is shining and waits for everything were less than 20 minutes. I've only left the park one time in a bad mood and it had nothing to do with CP at all.

Then again, I don't recall having a bad time at any of the parks I've been to (not that I've been to a lot).

I guess it's more from having grown up with very little in the way of unique and thrilling rides. Imagine Cedar point without all that steel and only Blue Streak as their signature ride.

You see, I don't necessarily go into a park with an 'enthusiast' attitude. I go in EXPECTING to have a good time. If there was little to no wait on Magnum in the first place, why would I get upset that a ride op spent an extra two minutes trying to get a returning train cheering? What is two extra minutes??

The total package is great (if that's your thing and you live in the area). Like I said, I used to live in Ohio and I loved it. But I've ridden the coasters, done the beach, stayed at the resorts, gone to the bars for a beer and gone to the waterparks. They're all fine.

But 10 years later, what used to be unique to Cedar Point, is now done *several* places that in my opinion, do it better. That's just a fact for me. As far as seeing the forest through whatever, that's a personal thing you can't really debate on a messageboard. But in my view, Cedar Point would need to build something unique to get me anywhere near it for a long while.

Or they can keep people like yourself happy and keep doing what they're doing. They obviously want interest primarily in their coasters as they're about to build their 17th!

Jeff is right, I see what I want to see, and spend my money accordingly. ;) *** Edited 7/17/2006 7:20:47 PM UTC by DWeaver***

So, the park hasn't changed, just your opinion on what's worthwhile has?

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"when you get a little older and have the money to travel. You realize that there are other parks out there that are capable of creating the same kind of magic"

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I guess I thought you meant anyone who gets out to other parks will see that Cedar Point really isn't special. That's where I disagreed. Same with the statement that the Cedar Point experience is easily duplicated elsewhere. If you're just interested in riding a bunch of coasters, your argument could be applied to any park in the country.

Coasters are sexy, but they're not the foundation.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 7:27:04 PM UTC by Gemini***

Gemini: I agree that it seems to be in vogue to *not* be a "fanboy" of CP right now. I further agree that HW has hit that "untouchable" standard.

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millrace said
What does being a "small park in the middle of BF-Indiana" have to do with anything? There's a lot more to life then giant highway interchanges on the outskirts of major cities.

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Is there? I hadn't noticed! ;) Seriously though, being a small park in the middle of BFI means that it will never be a park that I am interested in visiting year after year after year. For me, living right outside DC, the 'opportunity cost' is just too great. I'm not remotely intersted in anything else in that area (til you hit Cinci 3hrs away) and the park itself doesnt offer that much, IMO. If it were closer to me, or closer to a more interesting place, I'd be more likely to visit. Likewise, if it offered more things for me, I'd visit more often. But with the reality of its size and location, HW just doesnt do thaat much for me.

And take into account, The Legend is my favorite wooden coaster!

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The Rock and Roll Republican said:
Hmmm. See, I think they used to be. But any park with three wooden coasters (one being among the largest in the world) and an advertised gate price of almost $40 isn't exactly small - no matter how much 'free' pop you dish out.

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Price has nothing to do with it in my book, it's all about what it can offer me. Maybe now that I've become interested in waterparks, I might find more to do there, but on my last visit, there were really only about four rides I was into: Raven, The Legend, Frightful Falls, and the bumper cars. So to me, there just wasnt a whole lot to do. Granted, they have Voyage and the double shot now, but I'm only going by what my past experience was.

Of course, my idea of "small" vs. "big" may vary greatly from others as I consider Kennywood to be a "big" park and SFKK to tend towards "small". Has nothing to do with ownership and everything to do with offerings.
lata, jeremy

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2Hostyl said:

Holiday World does a lot of things well and I cant really fault them on any of their operations, but at the end of the day, they are still a small park in the middle of BF-Indiana and thus I treat them as such.

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Wow. I'm all for the expression of an opinion, but that is just wrong.

Give a little credit. The park is home to three world-class wood coasters, an excellent waterpark, clean grounds, efficient operations and one of the friendliest staff's you'll ever find. You treat them as a small park in the middle of BF Indiana? What does that mean? To me, it sounds like you've reduced everything they've accomplished to nothing more than a whimsical sidenote. The park, located in the middle of BF Indiana, has managed to emerge as one of the premier regional parks in the country- something pretty impressive since their region has a very small population compared to other places. Maybe it sounds like I'm picking a fight but I'm not. I know that your "thing" is to come across as opinionated and all, but I think that comment was more than just for attention, it was downright cruel.

Holiday World doesn't have "a bunch of coasters", yet I prefer the experience of it far more than Cedar Point. If you want specifics, they offer a better variety of family attractions, take better care of their wooden coasters, and have an atmosphere that I prefer to standing in 2 hour lines to ride what I can ride elsewhere.

So in effect, I'm saying almost the opposite of what you interpreted. Your first sentense is correct, having been around the country to other parks has changed my view on what constitutes a great park.

Cedar Point use to be the end all, it doesn't offer that same excitement for me anymore. I'm sure I'd still enjoy it, but it's way down the list of parks I want to get out to. *** Edited 7/17/2006 7:41:08 PM UTC by DWeaver***

It sounds like 2Hostyl's opinion of Holiday World and DWeaver's opinion of Cedar Point are the same. :)

And we've already established that "2 hour lines" at Cedar Point is just an exaggeration.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 7:42:17 PM UTC by Gemini***

The best time I had in a long time was at HW last year after I ditched a second day at SFKK because it...well, sucked.

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But 10 years later, what used to be unique to Cedar Point, is now done *several* places that in my opinion, do it better.

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Not with Cedar Point, but with my own "Home Park", Hersheypark, I feel the same way. Prior to 1999 that was the park that I was most familiar with. Up to that time, I had only been to 4 other parks. With internet explosion of the mid 1990's, I began to hear about more and more parks out there... prior to the mid 1990's, with out common internet access... places like relatively near by Kennywood seemed to be so FAR away (if you had in fact even heard of them from great distances away). In 1999 I made my first trip to Knoebels (after having lived all 34 years of my life up to that point). Then a trip to Kennywood came in 2000. After getting married in 2000, and having someone to travel with, the "coaster vacations" begain. Now it is 6 years and 49 parks later.

Hersheypark, what used to by my bench mark, has been put into perspective. Still better than average as far as operations, I realized that it is NOT the greatest park on the face of the earth. It is not even my favorite park anymore. Even though it is only 40 minutes away, I have only been there one time this year... and last year I did not visit at all. I had plenty of chances too beign at GIANT Center for several things from early and late season hockey games and the like... but I still did not get over to the park more than 1 time in the past year.

After seeing all of the other parks out there, including the park that sparked this discussion, Cedar Point, there are some great distances away that I will make it a point to get back to... there are others fairly close that are like "eh... been there , done that... short of a MAJOR addition, I don't know when if ever I will get back."

One of the closest to me, SFGrAdv I only am making it a point to get back to because I have yet to ride all of its coasters.

There are some that I definately WANT to get back too.. Dollywood, Kennywood, Busch Gardens Europe.

There are others that if I ever find my self near by (say with in 3 or 4 hour of) again, I would make it a point to get too... Holiday World, Indiana Beach, Beech Bend (if only for Kentucky Rumbler), and Lake Compounce.

MY EXPERIENCES at the others, including Ceader Point, just did not "wow" me enough to make me want to make it a point to return to them.

Can't say I will NEVER go back... but given the choice of travelling 7-8 hours and 400 miles... I will pick a park in that range that I HAVE not been to before going back to Cedar Point. A future visit to the Upper Mid West (Chicago and SFGrAm, Mt.Olympus and ValleyFair!) might be a "Fly To" vacation... or it may be a Drive To. If it is a "Drive To", the route of travel will take us very close to Sandusky... but I will have no problem or no second thought passing up CP enroute to three smaller, less well known parks that I HAVEN'T VISITED YET.

To me.. CP is a good park... but so are many others. Except for sheer number of coasters, there is nothing about it that makes me compare every other park I visit to it. Was I impressed by it... sure... but no more so that I was with many other parks... and truth be told... there are a few parks out there that have impressed me much more.

We could take Holiday World out of the equation.

Here's a list of parks I would rather visit than Cedar Point, and as you'll see, none of them simply have "a bunch of coasters". Nor are most of them "indie" parks. ;)

Hershey, Lake Compounce, Busch Gardens Europe, Island Of Adventure, Bonfonte Garders, Cypress Gardens, Alton Towers, Heide Park, Holiday World, Sea World, Six Flags Over Texas, Six Flags Fiesta Texas, The Dells, Indiana Beach, Dollywood.

10 years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. Alot of parks across the country have grown significantly since CP once dominated the headlines. Not to say it's not a great park that holds a special place for alot of people, but it's no longer the *only one*, not by a long shot. *** Edited 7/17/2006 7:57:13 PM UTC by DWeaver***

CP has not done anything to take the atmosphere from the park. Thats what I think. Its still the same great park it has always been to me, yeah, maybe they have less trees due to more rides, but they have planted more in the place of those they took out. Would we rather have a forest or MF, Mantis and TTD?

For all you who worship Holiday World, I didn't have the legendary time you all had. My gf and I went last summer and had a nice time in the waterpark and riding the two coasters. But what else was there? We had a very nice time, but didn't find the atmosphere everyone talks about.

I do think CP has a lot of work to do to remain on top, but I still love it there since going almost every year since being Magnum's opening year.

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Gemini said:
That may have been the case in the past, but I don't really think it is anymore. These days, Holiday World is the new "can't do wrong" park among enthusiasts.

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Can't believe I missed this the first time around.

I think it's spot on...as evidenced by the replies to Jeremy's kind of, semi-negative comment.

Used to be, you'd get jumped all over for questioning anything at CP. Now you get ripped for not appreciating every last thing about HW.

The direct inverse of this is admitting that SF parks do anything right. ;)

I should also point out that Knoebels and Indiana Beach are at the top of my list.

Holiday has good pr, good wood and free soda, of course they can't do any wrong. :) *** Edited 7/17/2006 8:10:39 PM UTC by eightdotthree***

It's all just personal opinion. My only beef was when it was implied that Cedar Point's magic comes from breaking records. Cedar Point is a lot more than 310 and 420 feet. Of course, that doesn't mean that someone will find all that other stuff worthwhile.

I've read the glowing reviews about Holiday World. I've seen their ride lineup, heard the stories, the raves about the coasters, the atmosphere. But nothing has compelled me, at this point, to take a seven hour drive. I'm sure I would have a great time if I went. But I would probably spend more time driving than I would in the park. It just doesn't seem like a "destination" to me. Same with most amusement parks, really, more than a few hours away. Places like Disney, Cedar Point, and Universal seem like destinations to me. Like I said, everyone has their own personal tastes.

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Lord Gonchar said:
Now you get ripped for not appreciating every last thing about HW.

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Very true.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 8:11:58 PM UTC by Gemini***

I think in addition to being a great park, I think Holiday World has become a "icon" of sorts to people tired of overpriced, understaffed, coaster obessesed parks with shabby at best wooden coasters and poor operations.

I personally like all sorts of "park types" including Six Flags. But if I'm spending hard earned money, I could give a rat's front teeth what people say is the "cool" place to go. I'm going where I *can* relax and have a good time, and that's not just Holiday World.

It just so happens they decided to add my favorite wooden coaster of all time this year.