Lack of Cedar Point TR's

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SLFAKE said:
All I know is this... People waiting to board, people waiting to unload... Train coming in on the breaks... Operators doing their little schtick

I don't doubt you saw what you saw... but what I'm getting at is that nothing you saw had any effect on the capacity of the ride. The window for dispatch is fairly narrow. They can't go early, and if they're too late (well, the way it operated last year), they setup the ride, it stops, and managers get involved and did a lot of yelling.

Brian sure has one thing right though... food service still sucks almost everywhere, and that annoys the crap out of me. The two out-of-park franchises generally aren't too bad, but everywhere I've been inside the park the last few years has been less than stellar, and that annoys me.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

Bottom line... in my opinion.. CP operations are average. Not horribly slow (like select SF operations in the years past), but not horribly efficient either. In my opinion they were very ANNOYING with their little acts.

But, most people enjoy the little acts. Take that away and you'll hear lots more folks complaining.

I also have to disagree with some others on here. Sorry, but two hour waits for Magnum XL200, Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Raptor, or Mantis are perfectly acceptable, unless it's just a really slow day. Patience, young Padawan.

I disagree that most people enjoy the little acts. I've been ranting about this at PointBuzz for some time.

There's a big difference between an enthusiastic, non-recorded spiel, a hearty "how was your ride," and so on, and stupid spiel tricks. Going overboard in the spiel is merely for the amusement of the employee.

I don't want to hear someone's comedy routine. It isn't open mike night. An enthusiastic spiel does wonders for the atmosphere. Anything more just comes off as amateur hour.

SLFAKE has a valid point, but as for the rest of the thread, I completely agree with Jeff and Tambo - you see what you want to see.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 4:45:17 PM UTC by Gemini***

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

As I said... in my opinion, the acts were annoying.

And as for the operations on Magnum... not sure of all of the technical details... not sure if they could have been going faster. But, then at least release the restraints for the train that just pulled in and load the next train. It just "looks better" to load and wait to dispatch than it does to have a train pull in and you wait to unload as the ops are making the riders cheer before they pop the restraints like they were trained seals barking for fish.

Also... Why is it that a 2 hour wait at CP on an average to busy day is "perfectly acceptable", while 2 hour waits at other parks on average to busy days would have people complaining? Sorry... but a two hour wait for any coaster (other than one I have never ridden before) at any park is will have me grumbling.

you see what you want to see.

That is so, and it goes both ways. And it is like I said in another thread... Certain parks that have gained a "reputation" for beign horrible are a lot closer to "Average" than many people are willing to admit... and certain parks that have earned a reputation for being "spectacular" are also a lot closer to average than many people are willing to admit.

People tend to nail SF for things that they would let slide at other parks, while at the same time let slide things at CP that they would complain about at other parks. *** Edited 7/17/2006 4:55:31 PM UTC by SLFAKE***

"Yes... well... VICTORY IS MINE!"

I'm sorry, Walt. I thought you guys were referring to the How Was Your Ride? type stuff. Obviously, some of the employees fancy themselves comedians. And are not funny.

The lines at Cedar Point are very dynamic throughout the day. A 90 minute wait for Raptor at noon might be less than half that at 4pm. There are exceptions, but it's not as bad as most people make it. And what ride, other than maybe Millennium Force or Dragster, is a two hour wait at Cedar Point? I have no way of knowing, but I'd be shocked if anything other than Millennium Force, Dragster or maybe Raptor approached 2+ hours at any point this year.

If you follow basic common sense techniques (get there early, go against the flow, etc.), you should never have to wait that long for anything, except perhaps on some exceptional Saturday.

Coasterbuzzer said
I thought you guys were referring to the How Was Your Ride?

I love enthusiasm, Coasterbuzzer. What I don't like is, "Welcome to Gemini, the tallest and fastest ride ... ... within five feet of this spot" (not an actual example, I hope), or "launching in 3 ... 2 ... 1 and a half ..." Not everyone agrees with me, but I think most people just want to ride.

SLFAKE said
while at the same time let slide things at CP that they would complain about at other parks

That may have been the case in the past, but I don't really think it is anymore. These days, Holiday World is the new "can't do wrong" park among enthusiasts.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 4:59:07 PM UTC by Gemini***

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

That's true about Holiday World. But, even when it was cool to worship Cedar Point I still had constructive criticisms, just like I have for HW.

Well that's because it's now fahsionable in the internet based coaster community to be seen as a sort of "anti-enthusiast" (which I might add has been my schtick for about 7 years now ;)). And by bucking all the "corporate" parks in favor of the so-called "small gems", there is a bit of snobbery to boot.

It's like in music circles where the "hardcore" fans are all into 'indie' and 'underground' sounds as opposed to 'mainstream' and (god-forbid) 'pop' labels. I find it rather entertaining really. Holiday World does a lot of things well and I cant really fault them on any of their operations, but at the end of the day, they are still a small park in the middle of BF-Indiana and thus I treat them as such.
lata, jeremy
--not a big cheerleader of small parks

I do agree with you, Jeremy, to a point. I think there is some of that around here. But, like John said, it's not really cool to worship Cedar Point anymore and Holiday World seems to have taken over that role. Which is fine with me, because I got tired of hearing the fanboy label all the time. :)

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

I think where the small parks DO have an advantage is their FLEXIBILITY. They can *try out* new things, like free soft drinks, to see how it works. Sometimes, the ideas don't work out, other times they do...corporate parks simply can't do that stuff. As a state employee, I know firsthand that bureaucracy frowns, ALOT, on innovation... ;)

One thing that is *almost always* nice about corporate parks? Located near the Interstates... :)

Me? I see both sides! And I'm a "fanboy" of ANY park that impresses me...most often, it's their EMPLOYEES that either make or break the park...
*** Edited 7/17/2006 5:31:06 PM UTC by rollergator***

I have seen threads over at Pointbuzz too about funniest spiels you have heard and I generally read that the people who respond to that thought the ops were funny.

Example: They year that Dragster opened, I was in line for Cedar Creek Mine Ride. The crew member on the mic jokingly said, "we're going to drop you from 45ft.(not sure of the real drop height) in the air, not once, but twice." My friend and I thought it was funny and concluded that he was upset that he wasn't picked for the Dragster crew. Oh well, to each his own!

What does being a "small park in the middle of BF-Indiana" have to do with anything? There's a lot more to life then giant highway interchanges on the outskirts of major cities.

(not a HolidayWorld fanboy, just sayin'..)

An enthusiastic spiel does wonders for the atmosphere. Anything more just comes off as amateur hour.

I hear you, but some of those amateur hours are *funny*. A recent example: an operator on Mantis asked the train: "Does anyone know what my favorite color is?"

Several obvious answers (blue, yellow, red) were shouted out, and he responded, "It's 'allllll clear'. Enjoy your ride on the Mantis."

Good timing, good delivery, and my friend and I were cracking up the entire way up the lift. As long as the spiels stay on the right side of the family-friendly line, and they don't interrupt operations or inconvenience guests, I like it. It's a bit of that ever-elusive charm that we all like to complain about.

http://cse.umich.edu/

SLFAKE said:
Also... Why is it that a 2 hour wait at CP on an average to busy day is "perfectly acceptable", while 2 hour waits at other parks on average to busy days would have people complaining?

I want to know who is standing in two hour lines... especially since it's usually the people that don't want to go to CP in the first place claiming that the lines are two hours. It's like the morons on RRC who complain we censor everything around here but have never posted a damn thing or even lurked to find out.

Are there two-hour lines at CP? I'm sure that there are from time to time, but I've not seen them in recent years. Perhaps from Dragster, sure, but on my last visit, the longest line I had was 20 minutes, and for Iron Dragon's front seat of all things.

Walt's example is right on too, because people will get in line for Raptor first thing in the morning and wait 90 minutes, along with everyone else. Then after dinner time, you can walk right up to the platform. The park's capacity as a whole is so high now that if you just use a little common sense and don't get in a long line, you won't wait! It will be shorter at some other point. And even if it is a long line, most of the time it's moving pretty fast, and not a function of the allegedly poor operation.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

Brian summed it up well. As long as operations aren't affected, let them talk it up.

I guess I'm a traditionalist when it comes to spiels. It always seems to come off as the employee trying to draw attention, trying to fight boredom, or, many times, trying to amuse his/her crew (those particular spiels are the worst ones).

I'm not saying there's a black and white line. There's certainly a gray area where some creativity doesn't hurt. But I'd say that gray area is crossed more often than not.

*** Edited 7/17/2006 6:13:02 PM UTC by Gemini***

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

And by bucking all the "corporate" parks in favor of the so-called "small gems", there is a bit of snobbery to boot.

Nice.

Ironic that with my long winded rants on spending money and not being cheap, sucking it up and paying to play and all that, that in the end I represent the 'average guy' and not some asshole elitist. ;)

So does being an anti-anti-enthusiast make me even cooler?

Holiday World does a lot of things well and I cant really fault them on any of their operations, but at the end of the day, they are still a small park in the middle of BF-Indiana and thus I treat them as such.

Hmmm. See, I think they used to be. But any park with three wooden coasters (one being among the largest in the world) and an advertised gate price of almost $40 isn't exactly small - no matter how much 'free' pop you dish out.

Seems more like a transitional stage. There's still enough of the small park thing there to keep those people happy and there's finally enough of the big park thing to draw general interest on a higher level.

How much more do they really have to grow before they lose the 'small-park' label? I personally hestitate to attach it already. Sure the location and the shake-your-hand-and-kiss-your-baby approach help, but the big coasters and the price tag tell me differently.

I suppose the question is, "What defines a park as a small park?" Because, there are a few parks that have that label atached that I don't really agree with. I see them more as a new third category of 'in-between' parks - of all the categories we can use to label (price, size, feel, attractions, etc) they seem to score small on half and large on half. Some have big prices and rides and a homey feel (HW) and old rides, some have small prices and large coaster collections (GL), some just meet the middle ground on all accounts (KW) and so on.