Knoebels is expensive!

Friday, June 20, 2008 11:46 AM
eightdotthree's avatar

Duckworth said:
For example, my mother-in-law and my pregnant wife have no interest in riding anything. How much do they pay to walk around the well-shaded park with plenty of bench-seating to hang out and talk or to watch me, my father-in-law and our two kids ride? Nothing.

So Knoebels offsets the cost of people not riding to those who buy the POP admission. Its kind of like my taxes funding welfare. :)


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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:06 PM
janfrederick's avatar I don't think it costs much to host bystanders (restroom cleaning? garbage collection?) And I'm sure those costs are offset by the occassional food purchase.
"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:10 PM
I was considering going to Great American. $54 admission (they do have a half price special going on now). $15 a day to park! Want a locker? $9-15! $25 for a regular flash pass for one person! (i think they just jacked this up $5 this week). $50 for the line cutting flash pass (which shouldn't even exist!) I can just imagine what the food prices are!

Now tell me, what does Knoebels charge for food, parking, lockers, and other things like this? $37 might be slightly high for the ticket price, but I have a feeling they don't overcharge in a back-handed way every way possible like Six Flags is now doing.

Although i will say at $37 all rides should be included. They probably have to make up for the costs of the Spruce Goose. An operating Mack bobsled would have been a much better choice.

And like mentioned above, those that don't want to ride at Knoebels don't have to pay. The ones that ride are the ones that pay. That's not welfare by any means. Its the parks that charge the grandmothers to sit on benchs that are subsidizing the riders admission with the non-riders admission. Knoebels pricing is much more family friendly. *** Edited 6/20/2008 4:12:38 PM UTC by super7****

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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:23 PM
rollergator's avatar If 37 for a RAD is too expensive, shell out the two dollars (!) for a lap on one of the greatest wooden coasters runing today...

Compare to any other pay-per-ride attractions going....I spent over 3 times that much for a lap on Jenkinson's Flitzer....and even though I love a good Flitzer, there's just no comparison.

http://www.knoebels.com/rates.asp

;)
*** Edited 6/20/2008 4:24:26 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:25 PM
eightdotthree's avatar I don't care if its more family friendly or not.

The food prices are low, but they are also low at Kennywood, Indiana beach, Holiday World, Waldameer etc who charge less for a comparable experience.

I find it interesting how $54 + parking is a lot of money to get into a park that has a lot more rides, a brand new water park and better facilities. But $37 is not for less rides and some shady facilities.

Knoebels is a special place and I love it, I just think they are over charging for the POP.


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Friday, June 20, 2008 12:37 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar I think I'm going to have to side with 8.3 on this one.

I know you're getting your money's worth, but I remember just (what it seemed like) a few years ago (2000-2001ish I think), a POP band was only $24 or $27. THAT, right there, is the sweet spot, price wise, for what I think I'm going to get to over the course of the day at Knoebels.

Back when I was younger and was into more of the ride until you can't walk days, I probably would have thought differently, but these days since I like to kind of play things by ear, stroll and relax, I think differently.

I think I would ride more than $24 worth of tickets, but definitely not almost $40 worth.

-Josh

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Friday, June 20, 2008 1:16 PM
matt.'s avatar

eightdotthree said:
I don't care if its more family friendly or not.

Then you're probably not the target demographic.


eightdotthree said:
I find it interesting how $54 + parking is a lot of money to get into a park that has a lot more rides


This is the part that really gets me. I can go to Knoebels and ride 2 fantastic coasters, pretty much all I want. I can go to a mega-park with 12 coasters but half of them are going to be mediocre to lousy, a couple more are going to be tame and aimed at children, and the rest may be pretty good to great but still not as good as Phoenix. And lines are going to be considerably shorter across the board, more than likely. I'd rather take the option with more rides on better, fewer rides.


eightdotthree said:
I just think they are over charging for the POP.

The price is an objective value, but the value is subjective. I mean obviously if you have different tastes from park to park not everyone is going to agree on what's good value and what's poor value but for me your comparisons to other parks don't add up in the slightest. YMMV. In the end it doesn't matter, the park's bottom line is what determines what is "over charging" and what's not, and from an outsider's standpoint it doesn't look like they're hurting.

Here's the bottom line - they're actively discouraging people from using the POP. Unless you're riding a ton it makes little financial sense, unless you're interested in the convenience of it and then you should pay a higher premium for that, anyway.

It makes perfect sense. When you get people to buy tickets then suddenly people are paying for rides with tickets that have less perceived worth than cold, hard cash, so people throw them around a bit easier once they've parted with their dough. Then consider that many (most?) people are going to leave with tickets in their pockets at the end of the night.

The math isn't hard, they can figure how many tickets they sold and how many were actually used every night and I'm sure there's a pretty big gap. Then for the people who really really want a POP plan they throw them a bone but it doesn't come cheap. Seems pretty standard to me.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 1:40 PM
LostKause's avatar Don't other parks like this make POP a value compared to tickets?

It would be pretty difficult to buy $37 worth of rides in a day at Knoebels. I thought that the POP was too expensive about 5 years ago as well. I remember writing a TR about how with the money I spent on Knoebels, I could have almost went to SFGAdv instead.


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Friday, June 20, 2008 1:58 PM

eightdotthree said:
I don't care if its more family friendly or not.

The food prices are low, but they are also low at Kennywood, Indiana beach, Holiday World, Waldameer etc who charge less for a comparable experience.

I find it interesting how $54 + parking is a lot of money to get into a park that has a lot more rides, a brand new water park and better facilities. But $37 is not for less rides and some shady facilities.

Knoebels is a special place and I love it, I just think they are over charging for the POP.


The POP price for this season may have been set anticipating that The Turns would be operating, I don't know.

I'll agree that $37 is a steep price for an all-day pass, which is why I seldom purchase one. At least Knoebels has the pay by ride alternative for people who think the pay one price is expensive. Do those parks with $54 admissions have that option? The option is pay or go somewhere else.

Lots of rides and new water parks are nice, but only if one gets to use them, which I don't often get to do while waiting in 45-60 minute long lines in many of the bigger parks.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 2:35 PM

Jeff said:
Are there people bursting into flames between the parking lot and when they take off their shirts in the water park?

No, I'm sure no one is bursting into flames (although that is rather Spinal Tap-like:) ). The only point I was trying to make was that if you say you offer free sunscreen, then maybe some people will get lulled into thinking they don't need it before they head into Splashin' Safari.

If I'm repeating the current recommendations correctly, you're supposed to apply sunscreen at least a 1/2-hour before you go outside, and they recommend a shot glass full, and then frequent reapplying throughout the day.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 4:38 PM
Quoted from Matt.

This is the part that really gets me. I can go to Knoebels and ride 2 fantastic coasters, pretty much all I want. I can go to a mega-park with 12 coasters but half of them are going to be mediocre to lousy, a couple more are going to be tame and aimed at children, and the rest may be pretty good to great but still not as good as Phoenix. And lines are going to be considerably shorter across the board, more than likely. I'd rather take the option with more rides on better, fewer rides.


Which is also why I would drive close to 5 hrs. to BGE rather than the 3 1/2 hrs. to KD (which I would have to drive right past).

Also, the Flying Turns was referred to as the Spruce Goose and while that may be a fair comparison so far, it's not like any of us were promised an opening date and they failed to deliver. Nor do any of us, more than likely, have a solid financial stake in it.

They finish it when they finish it. And if they would decide to tear it down tomorrow, so be it. I give them much credit for trying something of this nature.

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Friday, June 20, 2008 6:00 PM
eightdotthree's avatar

matt. said:
This is the part that really gets me. I can go to Knoebels and ride 2 fantastic coasters, pretty much all I want. I can go to a mega-park with 12 coasters but half of them are going to be mediocre to lousy, a couple more are going to be tame and aimed at children, and the rest may be pretty good to great but still not as good as Phoenix. And lines are going to be considerably shorter across the board, more than likely. I'd rather take the option with more rides on better, fewer rides.

The ride selection and quality is entirely subjective.

As for waits, I have gone to Cedar Point, Hershey, Great Adventure and Busch Gardens Europe in the last years time and rarely had waits over 15-20 minutes. Only the three Intamins at CP have waits anymore. Disney with its Fast Pass system gets me on and off rides quickly as well. These are huge parks with lots of rides. And I go on weekends! I must not go on the same days you do...

That said, would you go over July 4 weekend or wait until August? Camping for two nights.


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Friday, June 20, 2008 7:29 PM
matt.'s avatar

eightdotthree said:
The ride selection and quality is entirely subjective.

Right. Which is why the exclamation in the title of this thread is a bit silly to say the least.

I mean, you can't expect a large segment of Coasterbuzz to not respond to that by saying "Well...no. Not in the least. Actually just the opposite."

As for your point about not standing in long lines at parks X, Y, and Z, it's unfair to take my intent, that lines at Knoebels are generally going to be shorter than those at megaparks, and then compare the generalization to specific cherry-picked parks. I don't doubt that you can avoid the lines at Disney or Cedar Point, I've done it myself on a 4th of July weekend-Saturday quite easily but it still doesn't compare to the lines at Knoebels comparing apples to apples.

Even still, your argument doesn't hold much water to me because "rarely had waits over 15-20 minutes" still sounds like a lot of waiting to me. Maybe I'm just impatient but it's kinda laughable that you're implying that my viewpoint comes from my waiting *longer* at parks when really, it sounds like compared to you I'm generally waiting a lot less.

I think rarely encountering lines more than 20 minutes, I think "Yikes, let's go do something else!" *** Edited 6/21/2008 12:46:54 AM UTC by matt.***

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Friday, June 20, 2008 11:00 PM
i like knoebels because of the value you can get there. i have been there 3 times this year with my family. we went on fathers day and maybe spent $45. that included a pizza and 2 drinks, i had one ride on the phoenix and twister. my wife took my twin daughters on the whip. my daughters had 6 rides each on other kiddie rides and the pioneer train. i think that is a pretty good bargain. we live about 35 minutes from knoebels and about the same to hershey and dorney maybe a little longer. i like all three parks but if you have a family you can't go wrong at knoebels.
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Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:24 AM

super7* said:
I was considering going to Great American. $54 admission (they do have a half price special going on now). $15 a day to park! Want a locker? $9-15! $25 for a regular flash pass for one person! (i think they just jacked this up $5 this week). $50 for the line cutting flash pass (which shouldn't even exist!) I can just imagine what the food prices are!

Now tell me, what does Knoebels charge for food, parking, lockers, and other things like this? $37 might be slightly high for the ticket price, but I have a feeling they don't overcharge in a back-handed way every way possible like Six Flags is now doing.


Great America has a lot more expensive roller coasters that they put up. I like that Knobel's has a Power Surge, and Wipeout, but they just don't have a lot of roller coasters. You are comparing to Great America, but at least for this year at Great America you get the waterpark included with your admission.

If you want to go the waterpark (I think they have.) at Knoebel's, it's more money. No one has to get a flash pass at Great America. I have never gotten one, and still go on tons of rides everytime I go. So, I agree with what this park has, I think it is a little expensive.


Get Ready. Get Set. Spinout! Six Flags America: The Park that is Full of Disappointments
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Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:16 PM

eightdotthree said:

Duckworth said:
For example, my mother-in-law and my pregnant wife have no interest in riding anything. How much do they pay to walk around the well-shaded park with plenty of bench-seating to hang out and talk or to watch me, my father-in-law and our two kids ride? Nothing.

So Knoebels offsets the cost of people not riding to those who buy the POP admission. Its kind of like my taxes funding welfare. :)


Yeah...great analogy there--exactly the same thing. Well, since you missed the entire point, if you want to take your family somewhere else and pay fifty bucks each for everyone to walk around even if they don't want to ride--be my guest.

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Saturday, June 21, 2008 4:27 PM
^That is a good point that there are some people who either don't won't to ride, or can't because of "unusual body porportions," which is a really nice way that parks are telling their guests that if they are severely overweight, that they're not going to be able to take in too many attractions.
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Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:32 PM
rollergator's avatar So, let's say that you've got a family going to a park. Grandma and grandpa aren't going to ride anything too thrilling, but might take in a nice train ride, maybe the carousel, and grandma always enjoys it when "her old man" takes her on an antique car ride...ain't they sweet at that age! Probably they'll spend the rest of their day at the campground, but they came over to the rides side for the party... who doesn't like cake. :)

Mom and Dad have three kids. Son, 10, is quite the thrillseeker and will spend all day riding the biggest coasters and most thrilling flats. Daughter, 4, would like to be with older brother, but isn't tall enough for the big rides just yet. She'll have mom staying in Kiddieland with the old "watch me do this" line. Mom is holding on to the baby (or holding the leash on the toddler, LOL).

All told, they buy two RAD passes for dad and son, and spend probably 50 bucks on tickets for Mom's carousel and car rides with Baby (and she sneaks in a haunted mansion ride with Dad so she can grab him in the dark, hehe). This includes the tickets for Daughter and Grandma and Grandpa. They also have the passes to buy. Total for SEVEN people - what, 125 bucks?

POP only parks are typically better for families where everyone wants to ride more (provided lines, etc.), but there are alot of people who do better with tickets because of family members who might WANT to go, but are only going to ride a few rides. Then there are the other places that do it on ride tickets (like say those Jersey shore parks)....two rides on a Flitzer in Jersey can run you 15 bucks in tickets.


You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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Saturday, June 21, 2008 7:01 PM
eightdotthree's avatar I don't dispute that the park is great for families with members who don't ride, just that their POP wristband is over priced.
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Monday, June 23, 2008 11:42 AM
Knoebels is unusual in that their pay per ride pricing is so low. Two other parks with relatively low individual ride pricing are DelGrossos and Lakeside. Most parks with this option such as Waldameer and Indiana beach keep the individual ride prices relatively high to encourage riders to buy the all day wristbands.

Arthur Bahl

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