Kings Island Fast Lane

Monday, July 18, 2011 5:47 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Charles Nungester said:
I just love paying twice as much to actually enjoy a visit........................ YMMV

You don't have to pay twice as much to enjoy it. You can pay the same and enjoy it the same.

But pay that $50 and you can enjoy it a helluva lot more.


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Monday, July 18, 2011 6:14 PM

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Monday, July 18, 2011 7:56 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

What's really humorous to me are the Facebook comments. It's been stewing a few hours and there are 80 likes and 128 comments. The comment are overwhelmingly negative, but only like 4 or 5 mention the unfair angle - the entire group is complaining about the price being too high.


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Monday, July 18, 2011 7:57 PM
OhioStater's avatar

What about Platinum Pass people?

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Monday, July 18, 2011 8:02 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

Oh who are we kidding? How can anyone enjoy the park after they ripped out it's heart and sent it to Carowinds?


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Monday, July 18, 2011 8:05 PM
DaveStroem's avatar

Most of the them are complaining too. I don't think the pricing is to high, I actually think it is right or a little low. I am not a fan of pay to cut and even less for a system like this where it is unlimited use during the time period.

The difference between this and an event ERT is that during the event, your not cutting in front of someone that is not there for the event.


Before you can be older and wiser you first have to be young and stupid.

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Monday, July 18, 2011 8:20 PM

I am reading the facebook comments. Some people are saying how $50 is expensive and hardly anyone will use it. Flashpass at Great Adventure starts at $45 for regular, $80 for gold and $115 for Platinum for the 1st person. I see plenty of people paying for Flashpass even when the park is dead, so I don't think the $50 is going to stop that many people versus $40 or $30 or some other lower amount.

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Monday, July 18, 2011 8:55 PM
LostKause's avatar

I say it needs to be even more expensive, and they need to hand out a book of 10 FOL tickets (one for each of the rides they are offering this for), and when those tickets are gone, you stand in the (even longer than they used to be) lines the rest of the time.

Kings Island's line are already too ling as it is, so I guess I just have to help to make this terrible idea successful by purchasing it. Blackmail, I say. Blackmail, and Bribery. :)

This is going to make their already long lines even longer. Not a good solution.

Wouldn't it be the greatest thing in the universe if this was the one time that FOL access backfired? I'm kind of surprised at how many people, even on CoasterBuzz, are hating on this.

Last edited by LostKause, Monday, July 18, 2011 8:56 PM
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Monday, July 18, 2011 9:11 PM

This is FOL access. Unlimited. For 7 hours a day. For $50.

Feels a little under-priced to me.


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Monday, July 18, 2011 9:21 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar

Another thing to consider - a majority of the time this will be heavily used, is a time when most coaster fans avoid parks anyway, because they're super crowded. Now you have a choice to either a.) not have to see it in action because you're not there or b.) spend a little bit of cash and go ride some rides.


R.I.P LeRoi Moore 9/7/61 - 8/19/2008
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Monday, July 18, 2011 9:30 PM
DaveStroem's avatar

I agree with that Josh, so why not just limit this to Saturdays. This would catch the most cash and then the park wouldn't need the extra staffing that this will require on days when few people would be using it.


Before you can be older and wiser you first have to be young and stupid.

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Monday, July 18, 2011 9:50 PM
LostKause's avatar

I've been reading the Facebook comments, and some of those people sound like they have been reading my posts in this thread. I read words like "Bribe", Blackmail", and phrases saying that the long lines will be even longer. A lot of people are saying that they are not getting a SP there next year.

The thing I don't get that is being repeated on the FaceBook page is that $50 is too cheap. Those are the people who want it, but might not be able to afford it.

Another thing that is being repeated there is something that I mention from time to time is that people have a budget when going to a park. They usually take the family once a year, because that's all they can afford. They want to do as much as they can at the park while they are there. Unless they pay for unlimited rides, they have to step aside and let those people cut in front of them. I'm not the only person who thinks this idea totally sucks, and that makes me happy.

The nearby amusement park used to be an affordable day trip for the family. While getting much more expensive, the experience has been going way downhill lately, imho. Cutting systems and VQ's are not helping that at all.

Edit - I just want to add my favorite quote from the Facebook page,

I feel sorry for anyone who pays for a regular ticket and come from out of state or local...their whole day will suck if this pass in line thing happens. sad.

...That person is talking about people like me.

Last edited by LostKause, Monday, July 18, 2011 9:53 PM
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Monday, July 18, 2011 10:09 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

They usually take the family once a year, because that's all they can afford.

I disagree. I would say that they take the family once a year simply because that's all they care to go. You're commenting like regular families enjoy going to multiple parks each year, or multiple times to a park (and for those that live close and want to do that, obviously a season pass is still a steal).

And I still say that the majority of those that go aren't complaining all day about line cutters. They're too busy having fun.

They want to do as much as they can at the park while they are there.

I would disagree with that based on facts and statistics. Most families don't want to go and do all that they can. Again, they're not park or coaster enthusiasts, they're families there to have a good time and be entertained. And from 30 years of personal experience, as well as comparing that to facts and stats, I'd say that most families want to just have fun and ride some rides until about 6pm (which is when most seasonal, regional parks start to thin out quickly).

And again, I'd still like an explanation on how this is morally wrong. It isn't blackmail because the parks aren't in a position to threaten you in any way (You know, the basis of blackmail).

And it's certainly not bribery. Not sure how you're defining that word, but paying for a perk isn't in any way bribery, nor is it bribery to pay to cut.

It isn't either because it isn't illegal either, BTW...

In any case, you're simply paying for a product that the park offers on top of admission.

I guess they're trying to bribe and blackmail us by putting food in the parks and not allowing food in the park?

This is not, nor has it ever been a moral issue. Its a commercial one.


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Monday, July 18, 2011 11:11 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar

DaveStroem said:
I agree with that Josh, so why not just limit this to Saturdays. This would catch the most cash and then the park wouldn't need the extra staffing that this will require on days when few people would be using it.

Actually, that might make for a pretty good idea. Maybe big holidays, too. Then again, that could be how this plays out, who really knows.


R.I.P LeRoi Moore 9/7/61 - 8/19/2008
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Monday, July 18, 2011 11:24 PM

LostKause said:
I say it needs to be even more expensive, and they need to hand out a book of 10 FOL tickets (one for each of the rides they are offering this for), and when those tickets are gone, you stand in the (even longer than they used to be) lines the rest of the time.

Thats alot like how Kennywood runs their VIP coaster tour. You pay $12 and you get 1 ride on each of the coasters except for Thunderbolt. You get an ID card with your pic on it and you get to pick what seat you want to ride in. Each coasters time is on it and before you get on they punch out the coaster on your ID card.

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Monday, July 18, 2011 11:29 PM
rollergator's avatar

I'd be happy to offer it when it isn't needed...minimal impact on ops and it's basically free money - I've seen the people using bots and such on empty days and (unless the employee time needed to cover the FP systems on those days is excessive, which seems unlikely) I'd offer it every single day.

Last edited by rollergator, Monday, July 18, 2011 11:29 PM
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Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:05 AM
LostKause's avatar

I like the idea of not opening the pay-to-cut store on very busy day, Gator. That's a really good idea that I'd be all for too!

Tekwardo said:


I would say that they take the family once a year simply because that's all they care to go.

I am speaking from my own family's past experience when I was a coaster-loving teenager. Believe me, if my family could have afforded to go to several parks a year, we would have, because we had a blast every time we went. We bounced between a few parks from year to year too. My family and I would have loved to go to Kings Island one month, Busch Gardens the next, and Cedar Point the next, kind of like I do these days.

And I still say that the majority of those that go aren't complaining all day about line cutters. They're too busy having fun.

I think that they are too busy standing in long lines, and at the end of the day, they look back at all of the fun they had, sure, but they also frown at how long they had to wait. Heck, people complain about line cutters who don't have permission from the park. What makes you think that they don't mind the park allowing people to cut?

Most families don't want to go and do all that they can. Again, they're not park or coaster enthusiasts, they're families there to have a good time and be entertained... I'd say that most families want to just have fun and ride some rides until about 6pm (which is when most seasonal, regional parks start to thin out quickly).

I'll accept that that is your experience with a park, but I', not so sure about the word "most" there. I tend to encounter a traffic jam of people trying to leave even a half-hour after a big park closes. Sometimes, it takes almost an hour to get out of Cedar Point traffic when they are closing, for example.
And if one looks forward to their yearly visit, they are probably going to want to stay as late as they can. YMMV.

It isn't blackmail because the parks aren't in a position to threaten you in any way (You know, the basis of blackmail).

I sure do feel blackmailed into purchasing permission to cut when I am at a park. The threat is built into the system. They are creating longer lines, and are blackmailing me, at least, into purchasing the cut pass in order to skip the even longer lines. "If you don't want me to force you to wait in even longer lines, you better pay me a lot more money."

And it's certainly not bribery. Not sure how you're defining that word, but paying for a perk isn't in any way bribery, nor is it bribery to pay to cut.


Here is the definition of "bribe" that I think best fits...

Something serving to influence or persuade.


It's a pretty loosely used word the way I am using it. I am saying that the park is accepting bribes from people who don't want to wait in long lines. Cutting in line is immoral, in my opinion at least, and the park is okay with it as long as they are getting money for it.
It's kind of like me donating money the police force in exchange for a special police department sticker to put on my car that can persuade the officers to not pull me over when I speed (which seems to really happen, in my area at least.)

It isn't either because it isn't illegal either, BTW...

No it isn't against the law, but doesn't sound right to me. Maybe implementing it in some ways should be.

In any case, you're simply paying for a product that the park offers on top of admission.

Right, except is is not simple. It's very complicated.

I guess they're trying to bribe and blackmail us by putting food in the parks and not allowing food in the park?

Not at all what I believe. I have no problem with the parks forcing people to buy their food, except that most of the food is crappy. I can't even fit bribes and blackmailing into that scenario.

This is not, nor has it ever been a moral issue. Its a commercial one.

I understand that 100%. The place where I find if immoral is the part about cutting in line. It used to be a big no-no, and they even still to this day threaten to eject people who get caught doing it from the park. This idea, or park rule, or whatever, began because people saw cutting in front of them as stealing from them. Everyone paid to get into the park, and everyone waited their turn to ride. People who cut were despised.

But a little over a decade ago, Lo-Q's founders had an idea. Since Disney created a system to reserve their guests places in line, they would create something similar. They wanted to take it even further though. They knew that people hated waiting in lines, and that's why some of the cut in front of other people (which used to be considered stealing, which is immoral). They created a tiered service plan, in which they could take money in exchange for allowing people to cut.

Six Flags bought into it, as well as other parks, and it was a hit. Allowing people to pay for the privilege to cut in front of everyone else became a very profitable service.

So, immoral, because cutting is stealing, and stealing is wrong; bribe, because the park is allowing people who pay up to do something that is immoral, and blackmail, because if I don't want people to steal from me, I have to pay the park more money.

I understand that the admission plan has changed. I am not okay with that, and by the sounds of the people commenting on Kings Island's Facebook page, I am not the only one. I think that about covers it.

Keep in mind that if a park is busy, and pay to cut is offered, I feel that I have to buy it, because the lines are going to be even longer because it is offered in the first place. It does depend on what kind of pay-to-cut system they offer though. If it is very limited because of price, and it's not effecting line length much, I am happier than if it is cheaper and doesn't limit use very much, which clogs lines and makes wait times unbearable.

Last edited by LostKause, Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:07 AM
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Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:47 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

You know how silly those negative comments are going to look in 5 years when this has assimilated and "just is" part of the experience?

Even more interesting is that the 160 comments represent some postive and neutral comments and a lot of repeat posters. Look to the top and see that 97 people like it. If this is representative of a sampling of guests - the majority likes it. It's just that the minority is a vocal one - as usual.


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Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:48 AM

This may have an unexpected side benefit. Rumor has it that the new VIP entrance on Diamondback is the old single rider queue. I wonder if this means the end of seat assignments on that ride. I know I am really tired of riding in Row #9, so if this means Diamondback goes to non-assigned seats, BRING IT ON!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.


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Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:23 AM
Tekwardo's avatar

I am speaking from my own family's past experience when I was a coaster-loving teenager.

Your family isn't typical, then. We always went to the beach when I was a kid, and we usually went to 1 or 2 amusement parks and the state fair. But that was our family. Most kids that I went to school with (well, pretty much all of them) and my friend's families went and did for the most part as much fun stuff as a family that we did (some did more, some less), but going to multiple amusement parks over the summer isn't typical. You're an enthusiast. You came from a family that enjoyed going to amusement parks. So did I. I grew up to be an enthusiast. But that isn't typical.

I think that they are too busy standing in long lines, and at the end of the day, they look back at all of the fun they had, sure, but they also frown at how long they had to wait

Really? Seriously? I've never in all my years heard that from families as a common thing. Yes, occasionally I will hear a family that went on a bad day complain that they waited in long lines, but usually it's a throw away line in the midst of talking about how much fun they had. Rarely do I ever hear how bad lines affected a day to the park for anyone. I honestly can't remember that ever being the normal thing when I was a kid, and I don't hear it now when my friends with kids (who are families) go. And they know I enjoy parks, so when my friends go, they always want to talk about their awesome day at the park when they get back.

Heck, people complain about line cutters who don't have permission from the park. What makes you think that they don't mind the park allowing people to cut?

Because most people don't seem to think there is anything wrong with buying perks. Breaking any rules are going to get people riled up. But paying to cut isn't breaking the rules. Again, I still see the opposite, I think seeing someone pay to cut is one of the best ways to advertise the service. Otherwise Lo Q WOULDN'T be making bank.

I'll accept that that is your experience with a park, but I', not so sure about the word "most" there.

It's not just my experience. Otherwise there wouldn't be after 4 (or 5) pm deals to get into a park for half off. If people were still pouring in to the park, or not pouring out of the park (thusly not spending money on food, games, etc.), then they wouldn't be discounting those tickets. They also wouldn't be adding nite time exclusive shows (Starlight Spectacular, fireworks) designed to keep people in the park later. It's not my experience. That's a fact.

I tend to encounter a traffic jam of people trying to leave even a half-hour after a big park closes. Sometimes, it takes almost an hour to get out of Cedar Point traffic when they are closing, for example.

I'm sorry but, seriously? Travis, c'mon. The reason that you and everyone else encounters that is because at the time the park closes, EVERYBODY in the park HAS to leave THEN. That creates a bottleneck of EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER IN THE PARK trying to get out. There isn't a bottle neck when families start trickling out around 4-6pm because it isn't every person in the park being FORCED out of the park within a short amount of time.

And if one looks forward to their yearly visit, they are probably going to want to stay as late as they can.

Sure. If they, like you and your family, live in an area where they travel hours to get there and in many cases stay overnite (or do a really long day trip). I didn't say everybody leaves in the evening, but the fact is obvious that the parks start to clear out by a certain time in the evening.

And you could be absolutely right, people that only make one park visit a year (and have to travel to go, or don't have the budget to go) probably stay till close. We always did because we had to drive so far. Even then, we easily took advantage of the after 5/6pm effect and got plenty of rides without major waits. So I wouldn't have been 'forced' to buy a Qbot then, because we always knew the park would clear out and we'd not have to wait in long lines.

I am saying that the park is accepting bribes from people who don't want to wait in long lines.

*sigh* No. They're not. They're not bribing anyone. They're purchasing a service. You have the same option to purchase the service. It is available to you. They want to give it to you. Either you want to pay for it or you don't. Parks are a business. That's how they function, coming up with products to sell in order to make money. If this were actually a bribe, and people were being wronged, an open market would have stopped Qbots a long time ago.

Cutting in line is immoral, in my opinion at least, and the park is okay with it as long as they are getting money for it.

How? How is it immoral. How are you being wronged? Because you had to wait longer? You were never EVER guaranteed that you would even get to ride, let alone at what time you were going to ride. You have to pay for that kind of access. You chose not to.

It's kind of like me donating money the police force in exchange for a special police department sticker to put on my car that can persuade the officers to not pull me over when I speed (which seems to really happen, in my area at least.)

No. It's nothing like that in any way. Speeding endangers lives. Riding an amusement park ride before you doesn't endanger your life. See, the thing about bribes and morality is that you're going against socially established morals. Look around you and tell me that in this culture it is socially unacceptable to spend money and get a higher quality service. It isn't. Because no one is being 'wronged'. You had to wait a little longer to enjoy a luxury. That isn't being wronged.

I have no problem with the parks forcing people to buy their food...

Wow.

The place where I find if immoral is the part about cutting in line. It used to be a big no-no

It still is a big no no for someone who paid for the same product you did to try and take advantage of something they didn't pay for. But if you think that at any time there wasn't a system in place where (in any part of amusement park history) someone who had money and didn't want to wait in line wasn't able to pay more and get their way, I don't know what planet you're on. People have always been able to pay more and get more, even at amusement parks. What about those days that the parks decide to close for a specific group? That has always happened. And it has always impacted the people who could only go on that day. That's the way it is. This is a society where money gets you what you want. It always has. Someone finally decided to implement it on a smaller scale and make even more money off of it. And the mass revolution from theme park goers has yet to take place that I've seen...

...began because people saw cutting in front of them as stealing from them. Everyone paid to get into the park, and everyone waited their turn to ride.

Again, people were upset because they had paid the same amount of money to get the same product, and someone was trying to steal a product they didn't pay for. Thats like me paying for a single cheeseburger but sneaking and grabbing a double cheeseburger instead. Once it was offered for sale, nobody started an uprising, because that's the norm in this society.

This isn't a personal attack, Travis, but I find it telling that you rip pay to cut a new one and call it immoral, then turn around and say that if it benefits you, you're willing to do it. I don't think that makes you an immoral person because I don't find pay to cut immoral myself, I just find that argument silly coming from someone extolling the virtues of a system that doesn't offer pay to cut as moral, yet is willing to indulge in it when it benefits you.


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