Kings Island 2020

Fishleehooker said:

I'm nearly 100% sure they are putting something awesome where Vortex is, so there had to be some balance between these 2 projects IMO. The amount of money to surpass Fury 325's records would have been too much, and besides whats 1 or 3 miles per hour. Also Mystic Timbers proves to me that short and sweet is a great way to do a ride. And there will be no mid course brake run like on Fury 325 and others, so Orion will come in at the end faster than most any coaster ever.

I'm skeptical personally. I think that the removal of Vortex may not have been in the plans until recently. I don't think that there was an understanding that they'd remove it just to replace it. If anything, Orion is the replacement for Vortex. I'm sure the lot will be filled in eventually, but don't expect to be soon, and don't expect it to be a major coaster. It could be some flat rides, a family coaster, food court, show theatre, etc. Having available space for use lying around isn't the worst thing in the world for when they do decide to build.

Randall302 said:

I'm coming around to Orion. At first I was a little underwhelmed but after watching the pov again it looks sweet. Big, fast, steep, and with all the trees they are leaving around it it will feel even faster than some other parking lot coasters. Is it a little short? Maybe, but I thought lightning rod looked really short. Then I rode it. Now it's my favorite.

It is a little short for sure, but I think they want another coaster 4 where Vortex is, so they had to be careful with the money...it'd cost so much to beat Fury 325 and that seems kinda pointless anyway as its all relative. One thing I think that is really cool about this one is that the long break run means, at least early on, there will be no mid course breaks at all, and with that drop and the way its laid out, its gonna be FAST! Also I think there is no need for tons of elements on every coaster. Sometimes I just wanna haul butt without maneuvers getting in the way of the feeling if speed. Plus Mystic Timbers made me realize that short and sweet is something special too. Like those 2 minute songs you wish were longer but they are perfect and takes you longer to realize that but once you do....leave the people wanting more I say! Plus this is at the park with the Beast so the long ride is still within short walk.

I am absolutely thrilled with this addition myself and the more I see and learn about it, the better I like it.

Trackmaster said:

Fishleehooker said:

I'm nearly 100% sure they are putting something awesome where Vortex is, so there had to be some balance between these 2 projects IMO. The amount of money to surpass Fury 325's records would have been too much, and besides whats 1 or 3 miles per hour. Also Mystic Timbers proves to me that short and sweet is a great way to do a ride. And there will be no mid course brake run like on Fury 325 and others, so Orion will come in at the end faster than most any coaster ever.

I'm skeptical personally. I think that the removal of Vortex may not have been in the plans until recently. I don't think that there was an understanding that they'd remove it just to replace it. If anything, Orion is the replacement for Vortex. I'm sure the lot will be filled in eventually, but don't expect to be soon, and don't expect it to be a major coaster. It could be some flat rides, a family coaster, food court, show theatre, etc. Having available space for use lying around isn't the worst thing in the world for when they do decide to build.

Trust me, there is something already in the works for the Vortex spot. People in construction have seen plans for it. I wish they were enthusiasts and could tell me more though!

I've thought about it and if they do it like I think its a great plan: Vortex wasn't getting many riders and they needed to clear it for the next ride, plus it needed painted and it just makes sense to announce it now, get people in line for it to help with crowds now, then the crowds next year will be for Orion, which will bring in some of the money, while they clear Vortex and ready for the next one, which true, probably won't be til 2022-2024. I hope they go big on that one and that is one reason they decided to go short and sweet on the GIGA. Make it fun, make it burn through lines, then get another coaster that entices people to buy fast passes to recoup investment. The way Steel Vengeance does that at CP.....well....I really hope they slap something like that here to beat that record Iron Gwazi is gonna take from Cedar Fair. Don't get me wrong..this is King's Island and corporate interests so you have every reason to be skeptical. Just saying word on the construction street is more lies ahead. And its a coaster.

Whenever someone suggests that a 287 foot lift hill into a 300 foot drop going 91 mph is "maybe" "a little short", a puppy or a kitten dies. That's a fact. I looked it up.

bigboy said:

Whenever someone suggests that a 287 foot lift hill into a 300 foot drop going 91 mph is "maybe" "a little short", a puppy or a kitten dies. That's a fact. I looked it up.

True! It's worse than stepping on a crack in the sidewalk for sure. Especially when said drop comes within 5 feet of solid ground going 92-93 mph and that solid ground is in ravine with trees making everything feel way faster than it should(the engineers there are said to believe it will exceed 91 almost surely).

Fishleehooker said:
Sometimes I just wanna haul butt without maneuvers getting in the way of the feeling if speed.

Please don't quote previous posts.

Weird... I posted content to the quote... I'll try again.

Fishleehooker said:
Sometimes I just wanna haul butt without maneuvers getting in the way of the feeling if speed.

Have you ridden Fury? It gives you the feeling of speed, hauling butt, AND the maneuvers don't get in the way of any of it.

I have not and want to! But I may be mistaken, but does it have a midcourse brake run or one 2/3 in? The long brake run on Orion shortens the ride but will avoid that earlier brake point which should make it shorter but equally as intense, or fairly close to it anyway. I hear the engineers think it will be closer to 93 mph, perhaps more, so the 1-3 mph difference will be hard to tell. I like that his will go so close to ground on first drop and should be a little steeper at the initial point of drop and into that ravine...it should feel as fast as Fury....well I hope as a KI lifer.

Neither Fury nor Leviathan has a midcourse brake run, another reason I prefer the gigas to the hypers.

Fishleehooker said:

But I may be mistaken, but does it have a midcourse brake run or one 2/3 in?

As Bobbie says, you're mistaken. The only brake run on Fury is at the end, just before you take a 180° turn into the station. There is one set of trim brakes after the treble clef, but that's it.

Fishleehooker said:

Trust me, there is something already in the works for the Vortex spot. People in construction have seen plans for it. I wish they were enthusiasts and could tell me more though!

Oi, why would anyone "trust" a random internet person who just joined this community a month ago. There most likely is a multi-year master plan in the works for Kings Island (because all large parks have that), and whether or not the "Vortex spot" is part of it is irrelevant. The thing got old and not enough people rode it to justify maintenance costs any more, and removing it might not have been in the master plan either. KI is a huge park with lots of land. Space isn't a determining factor for expansion at this park, money is. And they're spending a heck of a lot of it this year on a giga coaster. I wouldn't expect another large ride at Kings Island until 2023 or 2024, and even then I wouldn't expect it to fill in Vortex's spot necessarily. I'm highly skeptical that the construction workers that you're friends with have any kind of insight on this park's future plans. Why should they? They're contractors, they do what they're contracted to do.

The only giga with an actual midcourse brake is Steel Dragon. All of the others, be they B&M or Intamin, use either extended brake runs or separate load/unload stations for proper blocking to run three trains.

How B&M does it isn't all that different of an approach than the infamous Mystic Timbers shed, just on a much larger scale.

bjames said:

Fishleehooker said:

Trust me, there is something already in the works for the Vortex spot. People in construction have seen plans for it. I wish they were enthusiasts and could tell me more though!

Oi, why would anyone "trust" a random internet person who just joined this community a month ago. There most likely is a multi-year master plan in the works for Kings Island (because all large parks have that), and whether or not the "Vortex spot" is part of it is irrelevant. The thing got old and not enough people rode it to justify maintenance costs any more, and removing it might not have been in the master plan either. KI is a huge park with lots of land. Space isn't a determining factor for expansion at this park, money is. And they're spending a heck of a lot of it this year on a giga coaster. I wouldn't expect another large ride at Kings Island until 2023 or 2024, and even then I wouldn't expect it to fill in Vortex's spot necessarily. I'm highly skeptical that the construction workers that you're friends with have any kind of insight on this park's future plans. Why should they? They're contractors, they do what they're contracted to do.

Don't trust me then. And cheer up for god's sakes.

I mean, there definitely *is* a plan for Vortex's spot. That plan is not having Vortex there anymore.

bigboy said:

Whenever someone suggests that a 287 foot lift hill into a 300 foot drop going 91 mph is "maybe" "a little short", a puppy or a kitten dies.

I believe they're referring to length of the overall ride, not the height or drop height.

That having said, while I do agree that its silly to hairsplit the height/drop height of this ride, especially when the drop will be no less than on Millennium Force or I305, I will admit the length of this ride is not as easily overlooked.

But like I said, I'm thinking the cool elements can make up for it. Come opening day, I think I'll be blown away and just laugh at myself for have ever worrying about the ride being "too short" (in length).

It's 5300+ feet long. That's more than a mile. It's in the top 30 for longest roller coasters in the world, excluding Alpine coasters. Only 32 coasters on the planet are over a mile long.

Borrowing and slightly altering bigboy's quote, I wholeheartedly agree...

Whenever someone suggests that a 5321 foot long coaster is "maybe" "a little short", a puppy or a kitten dies. That's a fact. I looked it up.

Time from drop to brakes and/or number elements is far more integral to determining the "feeling" of how long or short a ride is than raw distance travelled. TTD and Manta at SW San Diego are both 2,800 ft for instance. But conventional wisdom would obviously view Manta as the "longer" ride considering its actually more than just one launch and one hill. Do-Dodonpa is longer in distance wise than Smiler, but it wouldn't feel like the longer of two rides for obvious reason (More drawn out, less elements because of greater speed).

Orion, Leviathan, and I305 are/will all be about 50 seconds from drop to brakes. MF and Fury are about 65 seconds. That is a considerable difference. I305 gets a pass I guess for how intense it is, but the most common complaint of Leviathan it seems is about it not being long enough, despite it being 5486' That would be a very long ride for almost any other type of coaster, but for a giga that is not long at all. 5000-5500' is typically hyper length, which makes Orion seem a little short for the type of ride it is.

But again, I'm personally not really too concerned by it, and am as excited for the ride as any other. Just stating my case as to why it isn't really wrong to consider this a short ride.

There, I said it. Apologies and condolences to anyone who's kitten or puppy has deceased as of late. I will gladly buy you a new one :)

Since you’re splitting hairs like that, I casually compared videos of Orion and Fury 325. I believe that was the consensus ride that enthusiasses felt like Orion should match or best. I’ll generously say that Fury is 12-14 seconds longer from the crest of lift to the brakes. Boy, I bet glaring shortcomings like that have CF execs taking a hard look in the mirror and wondering where they went wrong. Seriously, anyone who steps off Orion and says, “wow, that was short compared to [insert coaster name],” probably forgot how to actually have fun long ago.