Kennywood - what's up with The Exterminator???

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rollergator said:
Good debate with open-minded adults helps everyone to get a better PERSPECTIVE on things...I can't JUST read Michael Moore and Al Franken, I have to take them to task too ya know! :)

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Except the conservatives dont seem to care about discussing issues, they only care about attacking every democrat in office. :)

man what's with the trashing the "newbies" here? everybody was a "newbie" once...

Yah, but some of us didn't pick fights either. Read the progression of the thread again and see where it went wrong.

Newbie or not, I think anyone acting like that would have received the same response.

Tell me about the little guy that is supposed to talk to you while you are going up the lift. What does he say? What does he look like?

I loved this ride 2 years ago, but I don't remember an exterminator talking to me? Maybe I did not get the full experience as planned by the designers.

I remember thinking it was the best ride in the park---this side of Thunderbolt! :-)

"We have developed some techniques that allow for localized, solid-state control, as opposed to a centralized scheme," he said. "We have little control boxes that house what we call a mini-SAM—or sound and automation controller—and on that card there is the ability to store up to four minutes of audio." The card holds a small amplifier as well, along with an animation controller. A sensor, detecting a cart, starts the show and the sequence, he said. The Exterminator consists of a number of short shows in the middle of one big show, he added."

I cut this from the 2nd link that booberry offered to us BEFORE the thread went sour. This is good reading for how the ride works. I do not pretend to be a tech expert here, but IF this paragraph is correct, we can see why there is such confusion.

kpjb said "the sound in the Exterminator is digital, and can't be altered, so the sounds that are there now are the same as they've ever been." This appears to be correct as stated in the link.

His answer was short and concise, but certainly did not mesh with booberry saying, "Now, the ride is simply in the dark, no sounds, no steam, no noises - it's basically just a Wild Mouse in the dark." By answering in this short manner he basically called booberry a liar.

It appears that we may just have a simple sensor problem when booberry rode the ride. Again I ask you to look at this quote from the article.

"A sensor, detecting a cart, starts the show and the sequence, he said. The Exterminator consists of a number of short shows in the middle of one big show, he added."

If the sensors do not kick in on one or MORE of the "short shows in the middle of one big show", then what you have is "basically just a Wild Mouse in the dark."

Had kpjb answered boob with a full description of how the ride really works (not that he needed to or should have to) by explaining the fact that the sound is digital but that there are multiple sensors responsible for triggering sounds at different stations/points on the track, then none of this would have happened.

We have now come to know that many of you are friends with and know that kpjb works at KW so there were quite a few that gave the credibility factor to kpjb! Based upon MY INTERPRETATION of the article, it appears that there is a perfectly good explanation of what booberry described.

Rather than deal with the objective evidence, it appears that many blindly accepted kpjb's short and incomplete answer and determined that booberry was some sort of liar, with a bad attitude. I think we can all understand that boob would eventually get upset when so many people are telling him what he knew he saw and heard was not true! From his perspective, and mine, and others, the treatment was wrong and RUDE!

kpjb, I certainly do not want to pick a fight with you or question your knowledge. Is there anything you can add to the conversation that would show the article is WRONG or my interpretation of "multiple sensors" is wrong? In other words, could you agree that if indeed there were one or more sensors not working when booberry rode the ride, then there would be no sounds and anitronics working for the corresponding stations?

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Jeffrey R Smith said:
Tell me about the little guy that is supposed to talk to you while you are going up the lift. What does he say? What does he look like?

I loved this ride 2 years ago, but I don't remember an exterminator talking to me? Maybe I did not get the full experience as planned by the designers.

I remember thinking it was the best ride in the park---this side of Thunderbolt! :-)

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I cant remember what they guy on the left going up the lift said. Its been so long since Ive seen it working, like I said, not since 1999. But here is a picture of him,( http://www.thrillride.com/exterminator/suitedguy.gif) and here is an excerpt from that thrillride.com article about what he says:

"Just before we hit the top of the lift, there's one of the exterminators and he's got his weapon drawn. As we pass by, he yelps into his radio, "It's huge!" Luckily, he seems to be too stunned to fire and we escape a blast of noxious gas by making another quick turn and heading back into total darkness. Now's when you might want to get a good grip on one of those handy rails, friends, cuz this rat is about to go berserk."

It was just as neat as it sounds, and IMO, one of the most memorable parts of the ride. If you rode Exterminator 2 years ago Jeffrey, and you dont remember seeing it, im sure it probably wasnt working, just like it has been for me every time ive rode it since 1999.

Ive always loved Kennywood to death. While I live 500 miles away, I have relatives in Pittsburgh and have visited Kennywood almost every year since I was too young to remember. Trust me, Ive had some fond childhood memories in that park, and it will probably always be my favorite park. Sadly, ive seen it slowly heading in the wrong direction the past 2 or 3 years. Rides dont seem quite as well maintained as they used to and most employees seem downright unhappy and dull, like they really HATE to be there. Ive always thought it used to have good employees, and I still think it beats some other parks in that category, but KPJB and others make me think twice on that one. Im glad at least someone is on my side with this, because im not changing my opinion on anything. *** Edited 8/6/2004 9:21:31 PM UTC by stljason1***

eightdotthree wrote:

"Except the conservatives dont seem to care about discussing issues, they only care about attacking every democrat in office."

Nah, those would be Republicans, not conservatives. Actual conservatives and the leaders of the Republican party have never been farther apart.

Now back to coasters. Jeffrey Smith has said that CP fans - I am one - walk in lockstep, never criticize the park, and woe to anyone that posts a disparaging word about the Point. Well, here goes: I think, and have since it was announced, that TTD was a mistake in the overall scheme of things. I can't help but feel that in the long run it will prove more trouble than it's worth - based only on my gut, nothing more. Hope I'm wrong.

But here's where I think CP shines - sure they make mistakes, but it seems to me they work harder to correct those errors than just about anyone else in the industry. And that's part of what makes me a "fan".

But this thread is actually about Kennywood, isn't it?

Isn't it?

I think there was a miscommunication about whether the sounds were altered vs. turned off:

kpjb said:
The sound is no different now than when the ride opened. You may remember it differently, but it is indeed the same.

It seems like booberry got upset instead of realizing that there was indeed a miscommunication and rephrasing the question: "It wasn't that I remembered it incorrectly, it was simply turned off the second time I rode. Is this normal or will the effects be operational when I return?" instead of "Otherwise, please create your own thread and play games there. Thanks."

Was he expecting to make friends with that sentence?

*** Edited 8/6/2004 9:33:28 PM UTC by janfrederick***

"Jeffrey Smith has said that CP fans - I am one - walk in lockstep, never criticize the park, and woe to anyone that posts a disparaging word about the Point."

spewey:

Just so you know, I agree with EVERYTHNG you said. I have never intended to bash CP. I think that I've said Coasterbuzzers tend to walk in lockstep, not CP fans. I've used links and percentages to back my claims. It really is a silly argument that should not be debated, as all one has to do is read the CB forum to see the evidence that backs my claim. In fact I've always taken great pains to not bash CP as I think it is the best regional (I use this term loosely as it is now worldwide in fame) park there is for steel coaster riding. It is run great and has a perfect atmosphere. If you find a spot where I call out CP fans then please let me know and I will apologize. I limit my take to just Coasterbuzzers as this is where I hang and talk about amusement parks.

I've only ever objected to TTD like you have for:

1. The ruthless advertising of this ride last year even AFTER they knew it was not running!

2. The reliability factor of TTD!

Somehow, the masses on the board have turned this into a Jeffrey is a CP hater argument which is simply not true. I've been to the park every living year I've been on earth since 1971. I had a season pass every year I lived in Ohio from junior high age and through undergrad. As I VERY small child I was there on opening day for Gemini with my father. I was there on opening day for Demon Drop. I rode the 2nd/3rd train that Mean Streak ever let out of the station for the public. I was there the first week Magnum was built, so on and so forth. I once rode Avalanche Run 37 times without getting off with the cold Erie wind smashing my face, and this ride sucked! I walked through the upside down house. I rode Earthquake. I rode the old steel coaster that was next to the space needle. I could write a book about this place from about 1977 to the present. Earlier than 1977 and I was just too young to remember. I love it. I'd venture to say I've forgotten more about CP than most CBers have ever known.

Just because so many posters repeat an untruth time after time, it does not make it so. It is a simple case of killing the messenger. There are a lot (I've estimated about 94%) of people on CB that simply will not allow any dissention in discussion of TTD because they take it as a personal insult toward CP.

Hope this clears up confusion and adds just a little TRUTH to whatever you’ve seen written about me!

Sorry Jeffrey, I just don't see how you can say that the folks on coasterbuzz walk in lockstep. Having been here for a few years and been engaged in quite a few arguments, I can say that I don't agree with many here and many do not agree with me. To say otherwise does myself and others who post here a disservice. Give us a little credit for being able to form our own opinions.

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janfrederick said:
It seems like booberry got upset instead of realizing that there was indeed a miscommunication and rephrasing the question: "It wasn't that I remembered it incorrectly, it was simply turned off the second time I rode. Is this normal or will the effects be operational when I return?" instead of "Otherwise, please create your own thread and play games there. Thanks."

Was he expecting to make friends with that sentence?

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Exactly, but it's easier and causes more commotion if you make the established members the bad guys. No one was rude to the guy IN ANY WAY until he got rude first - then it was towards Impulse-ive (who ironically agreed with him in the first place). Impulse-ive then called him an asshat. Which at the very least was good for a chuckle. :)

In a nutshell the guy came in looking for help, recevied it to the best of anyone's ability here and then *****ed us out for not telling him what he wanted to hear.

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Jeffrey R. Smith said:
I think that I've said Coasterbuzzers tend to walk in lockstep, not CP fans.

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Oh geez, give it up already.

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It really is a silly argument that should not be debated

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Yet, you continue to keep bringing it up over...and over...and over...

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Just because so many posters repeat an untruth time after time, it does not make it so.

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This is exactly what people must remember when reading your posts.

What's the point of coming here and implying that 94% of the members are incapable of free thought and will argue any untruth to the end - even implying a 'cult like' following with comments like "Kool-Aid drinkers"?

Really, why bother? You either enjoy the site enough to let any perceived "problems" slide and simply ignore what you find annoying or you decide it's too much and you move on.

You can pick & choose your stats, facts and logic, but it is often flawed at best - especially proven by this very thread. All one has to do is go back and read the posts to see who became agressive and rude first. It's right there for all to see exactly as it unfolded.

Can I say that those who defend TTD and refuse to acknowledge any downside to the ride are much more vocal on CB? Your point is taken. There are plenty of those who form their own opinions on here. I do not mean to generalize the whole community. However, on the TTD issue can you not agree that there are a huge percentage of CB posters who will not allow the ride to be disparaged in any way? Do you not agree that the quickest and easiest way to get a thread to go awry is to mention that TTD breaks down too much? This community, by an overwhelming majority, does not take kindly to any negative words about CP even if there is some merit to the words! Furthermore, those who dare to stand by their opinion that TTD does indeed break down too much are subject to and overwhelming negative response that may include personal insult and outright character assassination.

Just to be clear here. This post is about. TTDTTDTTDTTDTTDTTDTTDTTD!

Then I assume you missed the two news items from when TTD's cable snapped last month:

Here and Here

Certainly not pro-TTD, CP or even Intamin those days. I think there's only something like three people in that thread defending any of the involved parties. (CP, TTD, Intamin)

I don't know...the last couple of threads that went awry here weren't due to TTD...

And indeed, nastiness is no fun. But if you notice a lot, take a good look as to whether you weren't at least partially to blame. Were you really attacked for your opinion, or the way you handled it?

Your opinion seems to carry a lot more weight when you are nice about it. If you were absolutely nice about it, and someone came along and attacked your character, then they need to shove it. ;)

And the reason all the negative threads about TTD get closed is because we've heard it all already. We don't need a new thread every week telling us why TTD sucks. It's not censorship of an opinion, it's cleaning up a stupid mess.

“You can pick & choose your stats, facts and logic, but it is often flawed at best - especially proven by this very thread. All one has to do is go back and read the posts to see who became aggressive and rude first. It's right there for all to see exactly as it unfolded.”

Gonch:

I agree this thread has it all to see. As it stands now, it appears that there may have been a simple misunderstanding in which kpbg effectively called boob a liar. I thought I already lead the group through this. I’m not saying kpbg did it on purpose, but it is abundantly clear when he told boob the sound could not be changed he was wrong (functionally). The sound on this ride most certainly could come and go at different points on the rides track if the sensors do not work correctly.

Say what you will, but IF you had a bunch of people calling you crazy and telling that what you know to be true false, you would lose your cool. You are correct that boob got upset, but only AFTER kpbg gave false information. It is now abundantly clear that it is indeed possible for some sounds to be heard and other sounds not to be heard based upon a sensor triggering system.

Everybody go back and look at the sequence. Make sure you read the second link boob added.

You can accuse me of manipulating facts and AGAIN try to pit the established members versus the new guys argument, but don't do it to boob!

I think he saw what he saw. The evidence in the article proves how it could have happened. kpgb appears to have been WRONG about the sound this time. There is not one simple soundtrack that never changes. There are multiple soundtracks that must be triggered by sensors. I can only assume that these sensors were not working correctly or at least some sensors were not working correctly so different sounds may or may not be heard during the ride AND at different points on the ride. Why would boob come on here and write such a nice post and LIE?

Who can blame the new guy for losing his cool when he was basically called a liar and an idiot when in fact he was telling the truth?

I'm more interested in the original post of why the Exterminator is giving different rides now that earlier. It appears we've gotten to the bottom of it and boob should be thanked.

Are you interested in the truth about Exterminator Gonch? Or is it more important that you keep the "establishment" painted in the brightest colors? Is it possible that kpgb did not know as much as you thought he did?

P.S. This is not meant to bash kpgb. He gave an answer based upon what he thought was true. In fact it is true that the tracks are digital. However, kpbg’s answer was incomplete and did not address what boob was asking about. The evidence in that article contradicts what kpgb has said. This evidence in the thread and in the order given is clear for all to see.

P.S.S. We can now all try to be adults and discuss the actual evidence, or we can choose to battle about the "establishment" versus the new guys and ignore the article. I know I'm just interested in the truth about all subjects I discuss. I’m not interested in arguing an “us versus them”! If I'm wrong, I always admit it! We'll see if the "establishment" will do the same!

P.S.S. Go back to my original post with 94% and pull it up in context! Do the math, and IF I’m wrong I’ll be the first to say sorry!

Okay well I think we've all ranted on this about as much as necessiary, so lets get back to the more important issue...

Anyone who has been to Kennywood recently and rode Exterminator, how much is working? Is the exterminator as you go up the lift hill lit up and working? Or is he still dark, un-noticiable, as hes been so many times ive rode it? What about the Rat arm?

"Then I assume you missed the two news items from when TTD's cable snapped last month"

In fact I did Gonch! I was on vaction almost the whole month of July. May I invite you over to the trip reports to see what I did. I'm not finished yet, but parts I and II are on there now!

I remember my first several posts on CB. I was totally ripped apart (so I felt). I had even been lurking for quite awhile. I'm too lazy to look them up, but if you have the time...

I think what kept me here had a lot to do with how I reacted to being "shot-down". I didn't feed the fire, so to say. I still thought several of the members were complete tools, but had a "so what" attitude about that. Some of those "tools" ended up being people I really like now. I'm not saying how they shot me down was somehow OK now. I am saying EVERYONE can stand to use some tolerance in every aspect of their lives. It makes life SO much more enjoyable, and way less aggravating.

In this particular case it seems to me the janf side and the jeffery/jason side both have very valid points.

Scott

Now everyone, it's the weekend- go drink some PBR [or whatever non-alchoholic/alchoholic mix you prefer, and if you're lucky, ride some coasters! :)]

For those just tuning in, here is a quick recap:

Jeffery R Smith posts a thread asking "Is TTD worth the headache?". Out of the discussion, a couple dozen or so respond saying something along the lines of "Yes, it has its problems, but it’s an amazingly complex piece of machinery, and downtime is to be expected."

Re-read this thread, no one is anything other than open and responsive to his opinions, and certainly no "bashing" or "personal insult and outright character assassination" occurs.

Jump forward in time, CoasterCrazyBrutha posts a thread entitled "Hey Everyone.." in which he asked whether or not people thought that TTD may be removed. Out of nowhere, Jeffery R Smith decides to jump in and inform CoasterCrazyBrutha that everyone on CB are mindless CP fanboys, unable to form their own opinions or "use logic and overwhelming evidence." Clearly, this was only posted to pick a fight. Well, mission accomplished, as I'm sure you can guess what ensued.

Later in that thread, Jeffery decided to use his previous "Is TTD worth the headache?" thread as proof. He claimed, that because a few dozen people thought that TTD was such an amazing ride it was worth the downtime, that a resounding 94% of people were unable to even acknowledge that TTD had downtime. A jump in logic? I think so. Not only that, but he used 30 or so people as a representative of the opinion of the 10 812 currently registered users on CB. Oh, you mean an estimated 0.3 percent of CB members doesn't represent everyone? Shocking! </sarcasm>

In the past several days since that last thread, Jeffery R Smith has continued to bait fights in other threads.Now that you're updated, back to your regularly scheduled program...