Kennywood - what's up with The Exterminator???

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Jeffrey R Smith said:

I just think CB has become very cliquish and unwelcoming to anybody new. Frankly, most new posters do not or care who works at what park of who has friends at what park. I've been here for 2 years and until today had no idea who kpjb is or let alone that he worked at KW.

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Now you're finally touching the root of things.

Many Buzzers actually personally know each other outside these simple forums. I'll even give you that it may come of as "cliquish" to an outsider at times, but that is certainly not the intention. It's the same as being the "new kid" in school or town or whatever.

CB is an online community. One of the things that hooked me and keeps this my primary place to discuss coasters is that very community sense. I like the idea that there is camaraderie and discussions are just that - discussion, jokes, idle chatter as opposed to being a place where people just type their response and move on with little though beyond the anonymous screen name in front of them.

In the context of this thread, booberry asked. kpjb replied. booberry refused to accept the answer dismissing it as some know-it-all kid playing smart like you'd find on almost every other forum out there. We explained that kpjb does indeed know the ride better than any of us and would probably be the single best suited person on these boards to give a reply and that he did reply. booberry seemed (to me) to get upset that he wasn't getting the answer he wanted lashing out in an articulate, yet still agressive way.

When you get something like this thread it's not a bunch of kids sucking up to someone who claims to be someone and swooping in to kill the prey - it's legitimate aquaintances vouching for someone's credibility.

Same with your rant in the other thread. You know why Jeff doesn't have to produce evidence? (aside from the fact that there was no way he could :P ) - credibilty. Many people here have known Jeff a long time. Many people have interacted with him on all kinds of levels both personally and online. He has credibility within the community, having proven time and time again to have a lot of solid inside info and not being one to spout crap just to spout crap.

When it is explained that this credibility exists and some newb continues to push and turn things from 'debate' to 'arguement' it becomes the online equivalent of someone in real life walking up to a group of these people and telling them they're full of sh*t. Of course the established group of friends will stick together. Who wouldn't?

Everyone is welcome to join the fun around here, but like a real life community of friendships, you get a feel for it, learn about the people, get to know everyone and generally try to fit in if you feel it's somewhere you'd like to fit in.

You wouldn't ask a question then tell that new friend they're full of sh*t. You'd raise an eyebrow and attempt to learn more about the person. Are they credible or are they jerks? You wouldn't berate you're potential new friends for their inside jokes, you'd listen laugh along awkwardly - maybe even inquire about what it means. When the 'peanut gallery' get started and goes off "hijacking' threads, it's not meant to belittle or reduce anyone. It's how this group of friends would be interacting if you met them at the park. They'd be all giggles and innuendo - they'd be a lot of fun.

I don't see the "issues" that you keep pointing out. I see an online community who's friendships extend well beyond the forums in many cases. It's not harder to fit in here, than it would be to fit in anywhere else - online or off.

*** Edited 8/5/2004 1:11:22 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Questions I'd like some to to get answers to:

1. Are you mostly from Ohio? What is the percentage?

2. What the heck is the pancake joke about?

3. Do most/all of you have left leaning political views? Are you interested in views from the center/right of the spectrum or is that just not acceptible?

4. Is there a way we can get the screen names of those who are actually real life friends so we know what we are up against when a debate comes up?

5. Which came first? CB or that CP site that Jeff apparently runs?

6. Why are their 2 seperate sites? Or are the sites actually seperate?

7. Is CB just a hobby or is there an intention to profit?

8. Does Jeff have another job besides the website stuff?

P.S. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but these are off the top of my head! This is my attempt at an olive branch so I can better know the community as I assumed we were all lone rangers. I gave my real name because I did not feel like hiding anything. However, this is not typical and certainly is not a norm on a message board!

I wish I could answer more of those for you but:

1. Don't know. I've never lived in Ohio. Jeff has mentioned geographic stats in relation to the Coaster's choice awards in the past. I don't know them offhand.

2. The relevant threads used to be in 'Playa's sig. I think he's since changed it.

3. I've often debated with these guys on various things and I consider myself relatively conservative. I've never felt hurt personally in said debates and it often seems to me that an alternate view and subsequent debate is welcomed.

4. Hang around enough and you'll find out who knows who and how. It's that 'learn the community' thing in play.

5. GTTP came first.

6. Can't answer that.

(5 & 6 are sort of mentioned in the "about CoasterBuzz" section in the very first paragraph. There may be more info there, if you're truly interested - I don't feel like looking right now)

7 & 8 - I think those are more directed to Jeff and I frankly wouldn't feel comfortable answering those. Although, just from reading the forums I know he is a programmer and is currently writing a book to be published in the future. Again, it's that 'learn the community thing'

1. Obviously kpjb isn't neither am I or Gonch or GregLeg, we're all from Pittsburgh, there's a lot from Chicago area too, and a few from Florida and California. Any place with significant parks has a significant chunk on the site.

2. Search for CoastaPlaya and CedarPointNut in the same thread from about '01, you'll find out

3. What the hell does that matter? Coaster site, not politics site

4. No, because you don't need to know personal information like that, no one's going to LIST their friends!

5. Guide to the Point now known as Pointbuzz came first (I'm pretty sure)

6. The sites are separate but many of the same people frequent both since many of us are fans of Cedar Point

7 and 8, again why do you care and why do you think it's any of your business?

If this is how you try and extend olive branches and get accepted into new groups of friends (as Gonch suggested correctly that many of the folks on this site are - I don't know any of them, but I feel like I'm a part of the "group") then you must know a very trusting and open group of people.

I'd like to know how an argument over Exterminator led him to ask if we're all Liberals... this is a coaster site, and one's political views doesn't necessarily dictate how they act in this type of environment.

LG, do you ever feel like Linus in that Peanuts special where everyone shuts the hell up and they point a spotlight on you and then you can proceed to tell everyone why it is we're all here?

When I first joined the site, there was a thread about the Phantom's Revenge and if the lap bars vs. OTSR's would result in a lower height restriction. I told everyone that the height was being lowered from 52" to 44" and was promptly jumped on by Neil, a one time moderator here, who said I couldn't prove it. Oh, well.

I could have moaned and whined, but I had no credibility here at the time, and I knew it. Brush it off and move on. Are we that thin skinned as a culture?

A few years later, I'm glad I stuck around if for no other reason than to amuse Lord Gonchar.

And for the record,

1. I'm from PA. Originally NJ.

2. I don't even bother trying to find that one out.

3. I lean left, yeah. I've voted both ways many times, I consider myself staunchly independent; but as a general rule I think our government should stay the hell out of my life, and the right seems to want to control my personal views and thoughts too much for my pleasure. (Ever read 1984?)

4. That would be a truly tangled web.

5. and 6. There are actually many CoasterBuzz sites. Check out Kennywood Boulevard some time. Check out the site links for the 5 or 6 others.

7. Jeff is a self made millionaire, $20 at a time.

8. As LG mentioned, the book he's currently writing is coming out "in the future" (y'know... instead of writing it now and publishing it in the past ;) ... see even the friends pick on each other.)

*** Edited 8/5/2004 3:27:29 AM UTC by kpjb***

Why does everything have to be about me? I really don't think I'm that interesting.

The book is 65% done, and yes, at some point in the future I hope to be actually making money from my sites. Until that CitiBusiness card hits $0, that hasn't happened yet. When it is profitable, I won't apologize for it either. Making a living doing something you like, last time I checked, was the American dream.

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LG, do you ever feel like Linus in that Peanuts special where everyone shuts the hell up and they point a spotlight on you and then you can proceed to tell everyone why it is we're all here?

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Ahhh, that's it! I'm officially this site's "Linus". I can live with that, Linus kicks ass with his blanket and he has the coolest shirt of any of the Peanuts gang. I have better hair though ;)

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A few years later, I'm glad I stuck around if for no other reason than to amuse Lord Gonchar.

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And you do. Consitently & repeatedly. Very few people are capable of that. Consider it an honor.

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Why does everything have to be about me? I really don't think I'm that interesting.

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Yet, we tend to know an alarming amount about you. Creepy. Amazing what you can pick up about people by just reading and remembering. I just realized I know an awful lot about many of the people around here - even ones I've never met personally.

-Gonch
stalker in training

Well Jeffrey,

Since we have similar musical pasts, I have decided not to out and out hate you. ;) And when I first started posting here, I also felt like an outsider. Some folks I clicked with, some I didn't...and after a few years, I feel that I know a couple folks around here. I've even had the privelege of meeting a couple of them.

For the record, I live in Cali and lean left although I also believe in supporting business (I don't think they are mutually exclusive).

Jeffrey, you have every right to get angry when people gang up as you say...but in this case, let me point something out to you:

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kpjb said:

... I installed it myself, there is no flashing mechanism in that sign.

*** Edited 8/3/2004 4:00:47 PM UTC by kpjb***

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booberrylives said:
Believe what you want - I know what I experienced. And the two articles I linked to definitely refer to effects that are NOT currently working on the ride (at least when I went on July 19th as well as all the bad rides two years prior). If you think the ride is up to full "steam" right now, then maybe you need to do some more research on it, especially since you say you work there.

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I'd say that kpjp was being reasonable and professional about the posts. Suddenly, right here, booberry becomes argumentative with him. If there is anybody he should have taken an issue with, it was Soldier for the off-color (pun intended) remark...but not kpjp.

Now when someone gets snooty like this around here, new or not, people take issue with it.

I can see where his frustation came from, but what was he expecting from a post like this? And then when you come along and tell 'everyone' what bad people they are for reacting this way, what to you expect from 'everyone'?

Again, I really do like your trip reports and your posts are well written. It is refreshing to see that on the Web. However, it seems that you may feel left out or something. I think you are looking for something that is not there. Take it from someone who has self-esteem issues, you might look into that as being the source of your hurt. Trust me, I've driven away some good friends for that very same attitude. If you really want to be a happy person, there's a point where you need to stop lashing out.

That being said, I'd like to know what kind of equipment you used in high school. I'd also like to know if you still use hardware or hook it all up on Reason or something like that. You don't have to post that here, just send a private message.

-e

Not only does not everyone here live in Ohio, there are actually people from outside the U.S.. Myself, for example, who lives in Canada, and is neither left nor right, but a frothing libertarian.

As for not being part of the cliques: I have been on this site longer than just about anyone else, and I couldn't be farther from the "in-crowd". I check in now and then (not as much as I used to), catch up on the news, drop in on some conversations, etc. And I'm often in the minority on many debates (especially the all-too-common ones about lawsuits, which I regard as important tools in free markets) - but that's par for the course, and it certainly doesn't bother me. I take it as a badge of honor.

I guess it all depends on what people want from this site. To belong? To be popular? To fit in? I couldn't care less. But that's just me.

And who's this "Jeff" people are obsessed with?

I've been here for over Three years and I still feel like on outsider. I'm not complaining though; I kind of like it.

Of every other message board that I have ever viewed or posted on, this is the only one in which I look at their screen names before reading their posts. I 100% agree that it's like a group of coasterbuffs just standing around in a circle talking about coasters. Recently, this has been the only discussion board that I frequent, because I feel like I know most posters, even though we have never met. I have a lot of respect for all of the other posters, even C'Playa (lol).

Even thought I have had many lifetime friends, all of my life I have had a problem finding others whom share the same intrest in coasters that I do. 95% of my buddies don't even like amusement parks at all. That's why I like Coasterbuzz so much.

(Sorry again for the dramatic rant and life story.)

In respsonse to question 7, there was a period of time that Jeff was running this site on a personal T1 and going 4 figures in the hole every month (IIRC). I'd say it wasn't for profit at that point, for sure.

I think what kinda made booberry mad was that KPJB never even gave one single thought to a lot of that stuff that he mentioned, like the Exterminator on the left as your going up the lift hill. Considering how much you apparently know about the ride, I dont feel like you gave a very complete answer at all. That and I feel the whole comment on KPJB being the mechanic that would delete booberry's message, that was downright rude and uncalled for. This reminds me of how nobody really gets away with saying bad things about Dragster. If anyone tries to say it was a failure, or if anyone tries to say much bad about Cedar Point in that matter, they just get bashed no matter what, when usually they are very right.

Where were you when I needed you Jason? I like your style! :-)

Do either of you understand that kpjb helped *build* the ride? There's a reason no one can get away with saying bad things about Dragster and Cedar Point - many of them are unfounded and/or untrue! That would be the same case here ... if you choose to think that a guy that works at the park everyday and helped to build the ride doesn't know jack about the ride, you are seriously delusional.

Even if booberry was upset by the perceived lack of answer, he didn't need to be hostile about it. He could have asked for a clarification instead of:

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... maybe you need to do some more research on it, especially since you say you work there.

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Hey spewey, now I don't feel so alone on that issue. ;)

I can't speak for the OTHER *progressive liberals* around here, but I know I personally enjoy talking with the more conservative members here, and elsewhere (ya know, the real world thing)...;).

Good debate with open-minded adults helps everyone to get a better PERSPECTIVE on things...I can't JUST read Michael Moore and Al Franken, I have to take them to task too ya know! :)

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I...read Michael Moore and Al Franken

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Oh God, I'm so sorry. Where should I send flowers?

(took liberties with the quote for sake of the joke :) )

To the Lying Liars.... ;)

I'm with Gator though...I like to take my own beliefs to task as much as possible. It makes them better. :)

ROFL....well, I would read Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity, but I have a sensitive stomach...;)

As for Bill O'Reilly...well, never trust anyone named Bill...:)