Is Wildwood the future home for the NRCM?

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 2:40 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar Yes, I am. What was I possibly thinking? ;) :)
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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 2:44 PM
What kind of new math is that? Where's my abacus?
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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:23 PM
Growth is also a comparison to 'maturity'. As in 'our park is mature in growth'. You could use Hersheypark or Kennywood as examples of mature parks.

If something goes in, something is replaced. Yes, there are pockets of areas for a major ride, but for the usual capital programs, some items are moved and relocated. Smaller and/or newer parks, like Michigan's Adventure and Holiday World can build new rides, and build something new, with the costly misstake of removing an attraction that they will regret in the near future.

Stagnet parks, such as Elitch's Gardens, or Geauga Lake, will never add a major attraction without removing something. By the way, I love GL, no dis-respect intended. Wildwater Kingdom is being added at the expense of Sea World's old buildings and property. You will never see anything in Sea World's massive parking lots except ride parts and building supllies. Yes, you will see a hote and indoor waterpark one day soon, but no rides.

Will Morey stated at the coaster forum, and Jack Morey stated at the picnic, that yes, they have too many amusements, rides now are added, but rides are also pulled from service. They have about a dozen rides in storage,fyi. For Wildwood to grow, the boardwalk needs more 'family ummph', like Ripleys, Guiness, and other attractions.

Look at Myrtle Beach. Has Family Kingdon really grown? No? What has B/C added other than the Hurricane? Nothing. Did Broadway on the Beach get their themepark? Nope. But their are now 500+ resturaunts, and some heavy hitters in the Grand Strand, and how about the dinner theatres? Quite the draw. The guys in Branson and Pigeon Forge are not idiots in anyway.

Parks/Boardwalks now must evolve to total family entertainment mini vacations destinations. The past decades of just added a new flat, and putting pretzels in are gone, and the prior days of adding a hyper coaster for the teen crowd 'to be cool' don't cut it now.

Its all the non-textbook stuff. Kennywood revamping the massive picnic areas, Cedar Point becoming a hotel mecca, IOA rethemeing an entire section to Harry Potter, Holiday World passing up Christmas, and building a massive waterpark, Knoebels building rides long gone and nearly forgotten, the Moreys taking an established waterpark, adding full waitress service in the entire park with massages, tropical drinks. They could have just added another slide, but hey, their not Hurrican Harbor. Dare to be different. The Morey's accepted the dare.

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:33 PM
I give Morey's a lot of credit for that move, which I initially greeted with some skepticism. I'm all for boardwalk towns like Wildwood becoming full-fledged vacation destinations, but in my eyes (and the eyes of many, apparantly) Wildwood has always been a vacation destination.

I'm not against the addition of new restaurants and "spectacle" attractions to a place like Wildwood, as long as things are kept in check and the delicate balance is maintained. It doesn't take much to completely change the nature of something like Wildwood's boardwalk. Remove a few of the "way too many" t-shirt shops and replace them with a TGIFriday's and a Bonefish Grill and there's the beginning of a problem. I truly believe that Wildwood is not a "broken" seaside resort like Atlantic City was and Asbury Park is, so there's no need for some kind of drastic re-invention of the place. Stick with what works instead of taking a gamble that will probably lead to failure.

I like the fact that Morey's ride line-up is ever-changing, although some changes like the loss of the Jet Star hurt more than the loss of others like the RC-48. Flat rides are rotated around and every once in a while and old favorite makes a return. That, to me, is the kind of detail that makes Morey's so wonderful, clearly separating it from many other parks out there that are willing to stand pat.

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:49 PM
I remember Growing up here in S, Jersey and Vacationing in Atlantic City in the early 70's like we do today in Wildwood/Ocean City.

Atlantic City looked like Wildwood somewhat with all the piers with rides back then.

Wildwood doesn't need much change.
The T-shirts/ Pizza shops make wildwood.
TGI Friday/Applebess etc. would be a nice addition.
I would go as I did visit a few below during my visit same Prices as other spots and they do take coupons

THey do have
McDonalds
Duncan donuts / Baskin Robbins
Auntie Anne's Pretzels
Dairy Queen
etc.

and a few other National brands on the boards

- *** Edited 7/31/2007 10:54:10 PM UTC by PcMan***

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:58 PM
matt.'s avatar

PcMan said:
TGI Friday/Applebess etc. would be a nice addition.

yikes

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:07 PM
Jeff's avatar We need more of those like we need an extra hole in our... well, you know.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:55 PM
I like all the Pizza shops on the boardwalk. Makes for some cheap, good pizza. Mack's Has been my favorite since I was a little lad. Gotta love those Curley Fries too.

The thing that I miss the most is that they took away all the cigarette and CD wheels. Nothing like going up on the boardwalk and winning a carton of Marlboro, and a CD for $10(Well I was only that lucky one time.)

Wildwood is a fun place, but I don't stay there weeks at a time anymore. 3 or 4 days is enough. If the added the NRCM I would visit.


*** Edited 8/1/2007 1:56:38 AM UTC by Coasterfantom2***

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:17 AM
Curley Fries kick ass. Hands down, the best fries I've ever had, even though they're hideously expensive.

The loss of the wheel games in general hurts. It's not that the cigarette and CD ones disappeared, it's that all wheels disappeared. The only two I saw were both at the foot of Morey's Pier- one was giving away stuffed animals and the other was giving away Nintendo Wiis. Not sure if there are any others on the boardwalk but if there are, there aren't too many.

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:45 AM

Lord Gonchar said:

Charles Nungester said:
Yeah and certain markets gain 20 percent a year

Duh


Ahhh, but AJ qualified that in the sentence I didn't quote:


While the Morey's are the the top seasonal attended park, they are not growing rapidly, like other smaller parks. Quite frankly, neither is SFGAdv, or Cedar Point. Certain markets hit the point where they can float up or down 2-3% per year, and that is it.

Here's an industry person pretty much confirming what I tried to tell you on numerous occasions, Chuck.

The small parks grow because they're small and the big parks are stagnant because they're big. When those small parks get big, they'll see the same stagnation.

It doesn't prove people like the small parks better as you often argue. It's no coincedence that the parks that see the largest attendance growth have the most growing to do themselves.



I never said it proves people like smaller parks more. I've said and will repeat.

THE PARKS GROWING ARE KEEPING PEOPLE COMMING BACK!

MY One visit to SFGADV was ONCE TOO MANY!

Chuck

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 12:17 PM
And furthermore, These SUSCESSFUL Growing parks are getting the parents along with the kids.

Saturated? BULL>>>> Miss-managed, YEAH.

Chuck

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 12:20 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar With all due respect, Chuck, I think I'll choose to trust AJ's take on this one.
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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 12:31 PM
rollergator's avatar It IS kinda interesting to note the differences between the "small" parks that stagnate/disappear and the smaller parks that seem to be THRIVING....

I can't help but think that wooden coasters play a large role in the distinction...how's BB doing again? ;)

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 1:44 PM
A wood coaster will play a huge role in a park reaching the next level (and that's not just the wood coaster enthusiast in me talking). Holiday World obviously grew into a powerhouse amusement park over the past decade and much of that can be attributed to The Raven. Visionland would have been a blip on the radar in 1998 if it weren't for Rampage. Indiana Beach would still be a blip on the radar if it weren't for Hoosier Hurricane (and that's taking into account that IB would be an excellent park even if it didn't have a wood coaster.) Beach Bend, Cliff's, Funtown USA and Oakwood realized a lot of success once they added wood coasters, both in the eyes of enthusiasts and the larger general public contingent.

There's just something about wood coasters that seems to make an amusement park "legitimate".

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 2:18 PM
So Gonch, Your saying if Six Flags got the parents that don't visit and just use the park as a baby sitter, Their numbers wouldn't grow?

Fact is, Most of these larger parks are charging more for less every single year. Yeah tney build a big attraction and remove three others and most parents aren't going to parks for some 400ft 120mph coaster, They'll go if they are able to enjoy it.

CP's built there thrill seeker market and just dumped the family aproach altogether with the removal of Jungle Larrys, Dolphin show and aquarium ect. I think they are profitable only due to the amount of new blood every year and their resort packages. AKA, They are not really trying to grow, Just squeeze more out of what they have.

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 2:38 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

So Gonch, Your saying if Six Flags got the parents that don't visit and just use the park as a baby sitter, Their numbers wouldn't grow?

Not beyond a few percentage points. The same small percentage fluctuation we always see.

Let me reverse the question (in two ways):

1. Do you really think that any of the big regionals will ever see a double digit increase in a single season and do you honestly believe any one of the big regionals will do 4,000,000 guests in the next decade?

2. Do you really think the small parks that are doing double digit attendance increases will keep that pace up for any meaningful period of time and keep it up once they're doing the same attendance the big parks do?


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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 2:41 PM
Jeff's avatar Never mind that they've also added Camp Snoopy, an ice show, a great set of Halloweekends activities for the kids, and already had the Gemini kids area, Kiddie Kingdom and the Peanuts Playground. That's 25 kids rides not counting the carousels, more than the total count of all rides for most small parks.

You see what you want to see, Chuck.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 4:37 PM
Dollar for dollar, Cedar Point has gotten much more out of Camp Snoopy and Halloweekends then TTD.
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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 7:36 PM

Lord Gonchar said:

So Gonch, Your saying if Six Flags got the parents that don't visit and just use the park as a baby sitter, Their numbers wouldn't grow?

Not beyond a few percentage points. The same small percentage fluctuation we always see.

Let me reverse the question (in two ways):

1. Do you really think that any of the big regionals will ever see a double digit increase in a single season and do you honestly believe any one of the big regionals will do 4,000,000 guests in the next decade?

I think it could be done and any CEO who isn't willing to try, IMHO shouldn't be CEO. SFGADV is a perfect example of a huge market that isn't able to get people in the door or that but can't get them back. Make the damn places enjoyable and not a rip of scheme and you can do that.


2. Do you really think the small parks that are doing double digit attendance increases will keep that pace up for any meaningful period of time and keep it up once they're doing the same attendance the big parks do?


They might not grow at that rate, However I think they will keep they people their getting coming back at least if they continue in the pattern of keep lines short, Add new attractions and keep it family friendly and affordable.

Yeah, Im talking Knoebels and HW here. I Just read a post by Rocketmover that Knoebels when Phoenix was relocated there. The ops often waited a hour each day for thier first customer. MY HOW TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

Chuck

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Wednesday, August 1, 2007 8:15 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar Someone explain to me what Chuck is saying.

Please?


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