Is Wildwood the future home for the NRCM?

Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:52 PM
Because the information is provided in publications that are only sent to members and the minutes are posted to the members-only section of the website. Therefore, although it is remotely possible, I find it highly unlikely that any non-member would:

a) read the EC meeting summaries in ACE News.
b) read a copy of the EC meeting minutes.
c) contact a member of the EC with questions.

Yet Jeff P. seems to have intimate knowledge of what goes on amongst ACE officers. Apparently more knowledge than those of us who actually attend the meetings, read the published summaries, and read the minutes.

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:06 PM
matt.'s avatar There's a difference between "it's highly unlikely a non-member would do this" and "a non-member couldn't do this."

I find it laughable that you think any non-member wouldn't be able to know what's going on solely because they're a non-member when you yourself tout just how transparent the whole thing is. Don't you see the contradiction there?

You're making it pretty clear saying "you're not a member, you wouldn't know" wouldn't really hold much water, not to mention that it's very well possible Jeff knows whatever from sources completely unrelated to the methods you mentioned (again, not talking for Jeff here, not really making this about Jeff.) *** Edited 7/29/2007 12:08:44 AM UTC by matt.***

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 10:57 PM
I realize that Coasterbuzz isn't the place to discuss ACE matters (just as Eastcoaster isn't the place to discuss Coasterbuzz matters) but as a long-time member, I'd like to say a few things.

I think that ACE is a great organization for roller coaster enthusiasts, and people who have never been an ACE member really can't dispute that. Both Roller Coaster magazine and ACE News are excellent publications in this "find everything on the internet" age and the organization holds a lot of events that foster a sense of community. I'll gladly fork over the money for membership for my wife and I and never consider that to be a complete waste. To me, it's well worth it.

But I also think that ACE continually drops the ball with certain things. The club was founded with preservation being a very important aspect and because of that has a sizeable preservation fund... the thing is, ACE never communicates what it intends to do with that fund and the club's current preservation director seems to have absolutely nothing to say. Ever. I think it's wrong to solicit money from people but never come up with some kind of a plan for that money. And the fact that ACE officers always jump up in protest as soon as it's suggested that there are shady things going on behind closed doors doesn't do a lot to convince me that's not the case. Of course, this post is very similar to ones I posted on RRC about a year ago, of course having been told that things would change. And they haven't. The preservation director is still invisible. ACE officials act like you accused them of murder when you suggest some things aren't 100% right and as more and more focus is put on the museum, less and less seems to get accomplished.

Call me a loyal ACE member that, a year after this whole thing started, still wants answers. I know of a lot of ACE members that will back me up on that one. A lot of ACE members want to know what's going on with this museum that the organization is so dedicated to, and I for one want to know why nothing has been said about this. If I donated money to the museum or was about to donate money, I'd sure as hell want to know about stuff like this offer.

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Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 AM
Hey Jeffrey thanks for the reply about the ACE warehouse in Plainview. I've contacted Larson and they seem obliging so far...just need to set up the date and time. Hopefully I'll be getting a tour of the plant as well. Maybe Plainview would be the better site for the NRCM? I might know in a little over a week.
I survived a Japanese typhoon and the Togo flat ride of death!!!!!!
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Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:13 AM

Jeff said:

People in the Midwest aren't exactly thinking, "Let's go on vacation to New Jersey!"


Last time I checked you live in OHIO -- Not the Midwest by any means. For cryin' out loud Ohio is NOWHERE NEAR the middle of the United States.

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Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:31 AM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Swoosh said:
Last time I checked you live in OHIO -- Not the Midwest by any means. For cryin' out loud Ohio is NOWHERE NEAR the middle of the United States.

A popular misconception. The geographic terminology we use doesn't refer to the country as it stands today, but rather the perceptions of the 19th century.

In fact, the US Census Bureau classifies Ohio as a midwestern state. (see here)

I believe the states you think of as 'midwest' used to be referred to as 'Great Plains' states in the past. Today they're all one and the same - midwestern states.


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Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 PM
Jeff's avatar Yeah, this has always been the Midwest for as long as I've been alive, and frankly so is Pittsburgh, Detroit, Indianapolis and Chicago.

That "behind closed doors" nonsense is exactly why I think ACE sucks. Welcome to the new world, where transparency is king. You want to impress me? Keep your meetings open. I don't know how anyone can put up with shelling out $50+ a year to a non-profit that wants to be all cloak-and-dagger.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Sunday, July 29, 2007 1:27 PM
Ohio's problem is that nobody wants it. Midwesterners think it's in the east. Easterners think it's in the midwest (or don't think about it all)
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Sunday, July 29, 2007 2:36 PM
rollergator's avatar

Jeff said:Welcome to the new world, where transparency is king.

And here I thought *I* was the idealistic pessimistic realist...."transparency" is something that is often TALKED about, but the more I see the workings of state and federal government, it's a concept that people pay lip-service to...much like "accountability".

Gonzalez, Libby, Katherine Harris, Medicaid HMOs, etc., etc.

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Monday, July 30, 2007 8:58 AM
Transparency is just a myth. And when something looks transparent, it's really so murky that you can't make out what lies underneath. I'd love to see a true example of transparency.
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Monday, July 30, 2007 9:51 AM
found this on another site

"A reader visiting Morey’s Piers a week or two ago actually ran into Morey’s President and VP taking several people from Gravity Group for a look around the Adventure Pier near Great White. They were pointing to areas near Great White and then pointing down to Mariner’s Landing pier, so we can only assume these are the two piers they are looking at for the new coaster."

maybe the people at the ACE event mentioned Gravity Group as a designer
this is looking good to me

but Adventure Pier and Mariners landing is about a half mile apart from each other so i doubt it would be here
unless Moreys are looking to Best Holiday World ?

take a look at this pic I was there just 2 days ago and it’s a very long distance
add about 300 feet to this photo behind where I took the pic

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7425/img0591hm1.jpg

source:
www.screamscape.com/html/new_jersey_shore.htm *** Edited 7/30/2007 2:05:59 PM UTC by PcMan***

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Monday, July 30, 2007 9:54 AM
That's silly.

First of all, TGG apparantly has nothing at all to do with this project. And so what if they were pointing at something? I point to a lot of things and it doesn't mean anything.

Not picking on you, PcMan, just "pointing" out that Screamscape sometimes hits the nail on the head but sometimes takes wild shots in the dark. Like with this one!

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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:10 AM
One can not say they have nothing to do with this.
The Moreys could have brought them in after the Wildwood event or maybe they didn't want the public to know.Or maybe TGG will be doing work on great white since they are one of the original designers.
I'm just posting any news and it could be anything.
Since very little was leaked from the Wildwood event including photos and the Time frame is still years off anybody can be in this game.

Also Moreys could have sent out bids to many coaster designers and only the previous 2 submitted proposals but that doesn't mean TGG wasn't interested maybe they were to busy or they didn't have anything ready at the time of the Wildwood event.
Like Moreys said this is still in the very early stages but lets just Hope TGG is one of them.
--
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*** Edited 7/30/2007 2:24:56 PM UTC by PcMan***

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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:24 AM
Mamoosh's avatar It makes sense that Morey's talks to and receives bids from Gravity Group, GCI, Intamin, and any other company offering wood coasters. I wouldn't be at all surprised to read reports of people from any of those companies on the pier and "pointing to something."
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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:32 AM
Here is the Coaster that Intamin submitted to Moreys


http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3041/02jawbyl4.jpg

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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:38 AM
That's not an Intamin coaster. It's actually working.
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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:49 AM
It is possible that The Gravity Group guys were having a look at the Great White for maintenance reasons - the ride was built by Custom Coasters, Larry Bill designed it, far as I know - and it may also be possible that they're examining options for maybe moving it. The Moreys did mention at the event that they have wondered about the sustainability of running three piers and may look into selling off Adventure Pier - you'll notice it's had the least amount of investment lately, has the shortest hours, and least amount of foot traffic. They might think about selling the pier with or without the coaster, and maybe move it to another location. The Moreys also commented on the current state of things in Wildwood in general, saying it's a bit precarious trying to tell where things might go in the near future and further, noting there are some aspects of the island that are moving in a good direction and others that are pointing toward decline, and that some things do have to change - which make it tough to gauge how much further investments would be sensible. These guys have put their lives into Wildwood, it has to be difficult for them, but you can't say for a second that they don't love the businesses they're in and the communities they give back to.

Considering that this idea to host a museum in Wildwood, however permanent, just came to surface three weeks ago - two of the eight museum board members, Richard Munch and Gary Slade, were there and discussed this with the Moreys for the first time. It's rather idiotic to proclaim that NRCMA or ACE has thrown the idea away or dismissed it, it hasn't even been thoroughly considered yet. I think it's a good location, in the same way a site like Conneaut Lake Park or in a small-to-medium Pennsylvania city near an amusement park would be. People who have interest the subject are already there, and it will bring people to a place that could use the exposure. Wildwood has way more to gain than sticking it somewhere like Orlando or Las Vegas where there are already too many other distractions.

If you don't like the way they're running the show with the Museum, don't support them. If you're not an ACE member, chances are you're not giving them a dime. If you do have a serious interest in it, make yourself known, communicate with them directly and share your thoughts, and show some support. Just like how things are done in the rest of the real world. *** Edited 7/30/2007 2:51:02 PM UTC by Seahawk & the Wave***

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Monday, July 30, 2007 10:55 AM
First off, I don't think that the Great White is going to be moved. Nor do I believe that Adventure Pier is going to get sold off- the last thing Morey's would want to do is sell one of their assets and allow someone else to move in, whether it be with an amusement park or something else. The most logical answer seems to be that other companies are going to submit plans for the new coaster.

As far as the museum goes, my issues with that remain the same as my issues with ACE (which people are still assuming to be one and the same- which they're not). So this proposal was received a few weeks ago- why does the museum website appear to haven been neglected for the past few years? If you're a group seriously interested in soliciting funds both private and corporate, wouldn't it be in your best interest to explain to people what's going on rather than forcing them to come to you? My point remains the same- it's been more than a decade, yet nothing has happened and nothing appears to be happening. As my father always says, it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.

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Monday, July 30, 2007 11:03 AM
The Morey's are not besting Holiday World.GG was on a simple tour. The new coaster will be spanning Morey's and Hunt's Pier. Nothing more.

Screamscape's rumor mill should be closed when mularky like that is posted without a phone call.

The Great White is not moving from Adventure Pier.

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Monday, July 30, 2007 2:42 PM
This, as usual, is horse doo-doo. There are lots of things that happen in ACE that are absolutely secret. The EC meeting minutes in ACE News are laughably barebones and are little more than "The EC met, they discussed roller-coasters and ACE events".

The minutes you must ask for are better, but still very incomplete. They reference many addendums which have the real info in them, and those addendums require more asking to receive, and some are said to be unavailable, so the EC can keep anything secret that they want to. But, the minutes do contain some nuggets, like the fact that a regional rep, Ulrich in GA I believe, listed suggestions for ACE voting in his newsletter (of course, he didn't suggest me). He was told that was bad about a year after the election.

ACE info is difficult enough to get, the EC can do almost anything. They did finally get rid of the ridiculous "EC attends free" rule for ACE events. BUt that was only after the word got out, and I badgered them on RRC.

ACE is not an organization that requires ANY secret information, it's a freakin fan club. OF course, all the free hotel rooms and trips that the EC get need to be kept secret, I guess. But, all votes are secret, that's for sure. A few folks voted to keep the free EC events rule, but you sure can't find out who so they can be labeled as free-loaders. Not that it matters. ACE twists election results to ensure the group in charge now is for perpituity. Officers continue to hop from one position to another. Seifert is a prime example. And they never did explain why the last election I ran in had bogus vote totals reported and then mysteriously corrected.

The NRCM will never happen without funding from a company, or hell, maybe even some Congressional pork. I think putting it in Wildwood is way too dangerous. One hurricane will wipe it out, or one delinquent 15 year old with a lighter.

And, as for the barb wire museums, they are probably in some 200 square foot room, and are open by appointment only, and most Saturdays. The NRCM will require 10,000 square feet minimum. ANd that would leave tons in storage.

Rastus O'Ginga

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