I think it's about time we discussed this.....

Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:01 PM

I certainly wasn't in the station that day, but I've read and re-read the report many, many times. The investigation into whether or not the lapbar was down was inconclusive, but there were witnesses who said it *was* touching his lap. Whether that's down "far enough" is impossible for a ride op to tell, and that's exactly my point (and the point that thecoasterguy got at as well). WIthout a go/no go system (like a seatbelt) that can determine a passenger's maximum allowed size, you can't blame the ops for letting people on who were apparently just too large. Ride ops can't make a judgement call based on appearance alone.

I'd just like to make another point right along with this. Although this was much more prevalent in the years before the Raven accident, a lot of enthusiasts like to try to trick operators into letting them ride with the harnesses too far up, and there are ways they try to do this.

If the ride does not have a go/no go system as mentioned, then the enthusiast is literally putting his or her life on the line when they do this, and because of the design of the train, the blame would be put on the operators every time.

On B&Ms, the go/no go system isn't even controlled by the ops anymore. On all of their rides since around 97 I believe, if the harnesses are not down to a certain point, the computers will not allow the ride to go and will tell the ops which row and sometimes which seat the offending harness is in. Without an extremely freakish occurance, you can be *guaranteed* not to fall out of a B&M ride.

Contrast that with the latest and greatest rides from Intamin which can be sent with all of their harnesses up, and I find it amazing that those rides keep getting built as quickly as they do.

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:02 PM
Well, there are a lot of rides that are still being built that can be dispatched with the restraints up (all PTC trains, for example). That's really no big deal. The difference is that PTC trains (and others) have the go/no go system so that when the ride has passengers, it can be quickly and easily determined who can safely ride. The older Intamin rides do not have this. The only trains you *can't* dispatch with the restraints up (to the best of my knowledge) are the B&M hypercoasters and the B&M flying coasters.

mike s.,
People were referring to actual diseases (such as hypothyroidism) that actually do cause severe weight gain and severely limit one's ability to lose weight. Nobody was referring to overeating as a disease (although I think it could be argued that overeating is just as much a disease as something like alcoholism).

Not all diseases are inheritable. Some causes of hypothyroidism are gentic and some are not. If you truly thought that eating and not losing weight was not a disease, you wouldn't have even mentioned Darwin in the first place (not to mention the fact that this isn't even the context in which you brought it up).

-Nate
*** Edited 7/27/2006 10:09:12 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:06 PM
ApolloAndy's avatar

mike.s. said:
yeah so you would understand that food is nothing compared to your addiction.

Yes, because I learned to judge other peoples' problems in my recovery program. ;)

I actually learned very quickly that all addicts suffer from similar root causes and just act out in different ways. I have total sympathy and empathy for those in OA.

*** Edited 7/27/2006 10:07:13 PM UTC by ApolloAndy***


Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:12 PM
yeah but most people who are over-weight are not addicted to food, at least not seriously. its a minority among addictions. anyone who compares it to addictions like mine are foolish. i know and have heard of people stealing from others for opiates or money for alcohol. people simply do not do this for food. so i have no sympathy.
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:17 PM

coasterdude318 said:
Well, there are a lot of rides that are still being built that can be dispatched with the restraints up (all PTC trains, for example). That's really no big deal. The difference is that PTC trains (and others) have the go/no go system so that when the ride has passengers, it can be quickly and easily determined who can safely ride. The older Intamin rides do not have this. The only trains you *can't* dispatch with the restraints up (to the best of my knowledge) are the B&M hypercoasters and the B&M flying coasters.

True, however I'd also argue though that the type of ride that the PTC trains are going through is one where regardless of if the restraint completely fails or not, the passenger should remain in the seat without an issue. The combination of rides that are getting more twisty and providing more moments of tension against the rest of the restraints and the trains which are getting opened up more and more to create a more thrilling ride, something needs to give.

If the B&M rides can do it (and as far as I understand, *all* recent B&M designs are made this way), I see no reason that an Intamin ride can't do it. Twenty years ago, we didn't have the computers to check things like we do now, but we also didn't have the open-air train designs that we do now. If ride manufacturers are going to upgrade the thrill portion of a ride by opening up the trains, I think that it should only be fair that they also upgrade their safety equipment.

I'm okay with the PTCs not doing this, seeing as how I equate them with an older style. To the same extent, if S&S keeps manufacturing Vekoma boomerangs, I see no issues with not upgrading those trains electronically. If they are going to do a floorless model though, I see no reason that they wouldn't upgrade them. There can never be too many safety devices.

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:18 PM
i agree, intamin needs to make bigger trains to tailor to larger people, like myself
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:21 PM

mike.s. said:
i know and have heard of people stealing from others for opiates or money for alcohol. people simply do not do this for food.

Mike,

Please stop posting in this thread and allow for civilized discussion in it. I'm actually rather interested in it, but I'm worried you are going to get it locked.

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:24 PM
sorry but people brought up addictions. so i had to set it straight. my apologies to all
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:28 PM
Jeff's avatar

Charles Nungester said:
If this were true, Raptor would have big boy seats. Like just about every other B&M has been given.
Who is getting turned away from Raptor? I ride that coaster a lot, and I don't see people getting turned away ever. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm positive it's rare.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:42 PM
Mamoosh's avatar Andy said: I have total sympathy and empathy for those in OA.

OMG Andy...you must be a hippy too! ;)

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:46 PM
eric cartman: "hippies!"
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:48 PM
Mamoosh's avatar People who quote fat cartoon characters disgust me and I have no sympathy the them.

edited for spelling *** Edited 7/27/2006 10:51:31 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:50 PM
spelled cartoon, mr. dumass
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:55 PM
Mamoosh's avatar It's called a typo and I've fixed it. I found something you might find interesting reading:

http://www.obesity.org/education/causes.shtml

mOOSH - proud to be a hippy dumass!

*** Edited 7/27/2006 11:05:51 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:08 PM
obsurd propoganda i tell you!
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:17 PM
wow i can google too, and i will find ten times more information on the wrongs of obesity, but i feel i already made my point. you get board points for trying though!
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:24 PM

mike.s. said:
spelled cartoon, mr. dumass

Spelled Dumbass

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Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:26 PM
It's French. ;)
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Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:33 PM
i thought it was spelled dumass in the geico commercials. im terribly sorry, i hope my typo didnt ruin your day! :)
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