I think it's about time we discussed this.....

Friday, July 28, 2006 3:49 PM
thecoasterguy,

A go/no go system that relies on the ride op's discretion based on visual cues is completely, 100% unacceptable. And that's the only type of go/no go system that Intamin had on their hypercoaster trains. There wasn't even a line to determine when the lapbar was down past the required point. It was essentially just "make sure the bar is down." That's the most flawed design I've ever seen. Intamin often commented that the lapbars weren't down far enough in the cases where people were ejected from the rides. Okay, I can accept that, but how the heck can a ride operator determine when they're down far enough? That's the real problem; the manufacturer absolutely should have included something (whether manual or computerized) that indicates proper lapbar position.

This is why both Six Flags and Cedar Fair have installed go/no go systems of their own. Six Flags added seatbelts that attach to the lapbar (if you can't buckle them, the bar isn't down far enough and you're too big to ride). Cedar Point, as we know, shortened their seatbelts and requires an inch of slack, requiring that riders be smaller than a certain size (and, presumably, the lapbar can be pushed down past the required point).

You can argue that a computerized system monitoring lapbar position would have prevented the ride operators from dispatching the train in the cases where people were ejected, and that's absolutely true. However, the same would be true if those trains had ANY go/no go system. A seatbelt of proper size, a bar that won't lock until it's down far enough, or a belt that connects to the lapbar would have *all* prevented those riders from boarding. It doesn't have to be electronic.

Seatbelts and lapbars can be kept as separate systems, and that's just fine. But then either (a) the seatbelt needs to be of a specific size as to act as a go/no go system (such as with the current Millennium Force configuration) or (b) there needs to be a third system in place that acts as the go/no go system (such as with PTC trains where the lapbar will not lock until it's pulled down far enough).

I don't agree that a seatbelt cannot act as a go/no go and a secondary restraint at the same time. This is what's going on with Millennium Force and it's working fine (and I'm speaking striction safety-wise here). This is also how certain wooden coasters operate. The problem is that although Intamin hypercoasters had seatbelts, they were not configured to act as a go/no go system. For one thing, they were all different lengths. For another, they weren't short enough to restrict people who were too large from riding. So while I believe that (although not the best possible system) it's very possible for a seatbelt to be a secondary restraint and a go/no go system, Intamin's just weren't set up correctly.

Forgive the long post. I know we're generally on the same page with all of this, but I find it interesting too. :)

-Nate
*** Edited 7/28/2006 7:53:28 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Friday, July 28, 2006 3:50 PM
If being heavy is, for so many people, genetically predisposed, why don't any other countries have the problem?


Oh yeah, because Americans (and I am one, AND I even work in a restaurant(!)) eat garbage and drive everywhere instead of - god forbid - getting exercise in the sun. I lost around 30 lbs years ago, as I was a fairly hefty teen, and all it took was vigorous exercise, much of it outdoors where I could sweat like crazy which helps you lose weight, and a keen eye towards what I ate. Nothing insane, really. Cut out fried foods, ate meat at only one meal a day, switched to diet soda, drank at least a gallon of water a day. Just because most fat people don't have the willpower to change doesn't mean it's so hard. Just means their will is that weak.


And it is NOT OK to be overweight. If this society is going to shun smokers to the extent that they have, it's only fair to look at obesity in the same light. They're very similar conditions.

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Friday, July 28, 2006 3:55 PM

Lord Gonchar said:
Here's my take on the proper grammar thing:

If you don't respect your own ideas enough to make sure they're conveyed clearly in a way that's easy to understand, they why would you expect anyone else to?

But I guess when your closing statement to a debate is "PWN3D!" in all bold letters, you're probably not getting much respect in the first place, so I suppose spelling isn't all that relevant.


i just dont have enough respect to type properly on a roller coaster enthusiest forum. i shouldnt have to type correctly in order to have respect for what im saying. umm, i think my points are made clearly its just that people cant get over the shock value of my belief and interpret it as something critical. im just rationalizing. the people who cant really understand my idea of a better lifestyle are the ones trying to protect their own unhealthy lifestyle. it is as simple as that. anybody can lose weight, its not mission:impossible. so why don't you criticize me for something more relevent than petty grammarical errors. ha ha

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Friday, July 28, 2006 3:57 PM
jeff, i think you should close this thread and go ahead and throw in a couple wise remarks to bash me for my opinion before this keeps on going off into the deep end ;)
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Friday, July 28, 2006 4:04 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

i just dont have enough respect to type properly on a roller coaster enthusiest forum.

Exactly my point.


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Friday, July 28, 2006 4:30 PM
rollergator's avatar ...and ^^this^^ is how you're going to go about GETTING it? :)
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Friday, July 28, 2006 6:05 PM
janfrederick's avatar

the people who cant really understand my idea of a better lifestyle are the ones trying to protect their own unhealthy lifestyle.

I'm sure most of us get your point. We just don't get your attitude.


"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
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Friday, July 28, 2006 6:12 PM
Jeff's avatar I just relieved him of his account when I realized it was the same IP he made the previous topic with the naughty words.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Silly Nonsense

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Friday, July 28, 2006 6:21 PM
Rob:

I agree with what you have to say in that unique (or not so unique?) situation. I do have a hard time believing that there are that many "innocent" riders who are caught completley off guard. I assume you are talking about those who do not know or care much about the ride restraints and/or do not know they are fat...? I'll grant clemancy to the former.

Lets be honest...you know when you are fat. I'm fat right now (near 230). I hurry into every coaster and hope that the belt will fit. I'm fully prepared to rush to the exit if it does not. I've been lucky to date...

My beef is those who continue to hold up the line when it becomes apparent they cannot fit. I still say the way to handle this is to move to the exit and take up the matter with customer service. Arguing and hoping against hope that the stomach will shrink on the spot is not going to do any good AND will only delay those behind you who have nothing to do with the problem.

I hope that clears up my opinion...

P.S. I'm already on record in stating that all major rides should have a clearly marked dummy seat and weight/size warnings so everybody can test BEFORE getting to the station.

P.P.S. For you guys who have been denied a ride on MF (or any other ride)...did you go to customer service? Do you just get the standard generic "safety" speach? I was just wondering how the park(s) are handling the situation.

*** Edited 7/28/2006 10:21:30 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

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Friday, July 28, 2006 6:25 PM
janfrederick's avatar I agree with Jeffrey on this point...having dealt with plenty of parents whose kids were too small to ride and decided to have a sit in.

Too bad he's gone. I really wanted him to see that. The kid needs a shrink.

*** Edited 7/28/2006 10:31:01 PM UTC by janfrederick***


"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
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Friday, July 28, 2006 11:24 PM

Jeff said:
I just relieved him of his account when I realized it was the same IP he made the previous topic with the naughty words.
My eyes are still bleeding. :(
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Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:00 AM
I have just completed reading every post in this forum in one sitting and I am so grateful for it.

All of the opionions, comments, confessions and name calling really hit home.

I would like to mention a few beliefs. I am overweight due to the high amount of stress in my life. Maybe that is why amusement parks are so important to me. Like the general peeps, when I'm a a park, I don't have to think about anything. It's PURE ESCAPISM.

I have never had an alchohalic beverage. I know I'm obsessive / compulsive, so things that I like - I like a lot. If I tried it, and liked it, I wouldn't be able to stop. I never took drugs. I despise second hand smoke. Since most of my life isn't my own & freetime during the "school year" is non-existant, I eat. I eat a lot. Sometimes very agressively. So yes, it's addictive - at least for me. It IS my drug.

I never was denied a ride, though I rode the often mentioned MF before the changes, and I had a horrible ride on El Toro - due to my size and stapling. (I JUST made it: "CHeck 1" "CHeck 1")

Reading this thread, knowing it's (indirectly) about (people like) me, and knowing that it will be my burden to carry is daunting.

I would like to be able to post for a long time and I will use this thread as a reminder of what I NEED to do so I can continue to do what I LOVE to do.

To those of you in my boat, let's wish each other good luck and the motivation to keep trying.

To those of you who have ever been turned away: I hope that it could be the "rock bottom moment" that will begin to turn your life around.

To those of you who battle similar or other demons. I hope you win. I hope you WIN BIG.

One last Preachy Comment...

In school, we always try to treat the children with a sense of "Fairness." Fairness does not mean that every child gets the same deal. It means, every child gets what he or she needs. The child with poor vision gets a seat close to the board because he or she needs it. The child who is below level - gets remediation. There are also programs for gifted and talented children and those with music and sports strengths.

Unfortunately, the children don't always treat each other with a sense of fairness.

Someone (Forgive me, I don't remember who) mentioned that the terrorist acts of 9-11 didn't speak for MOST Muslim people. (Some interviews on the news said it was quite the opposite, that all life is precious accoridng to Muslim law) In school, some of the Muslim children were absent from school for a while, out of fear of misplaced retalitaion. Talk about a lack of "fairness." *** Edited 7/29/2006 4:05:47 AM UTC by Richie Reflux***


Here's To Shorter Lines & Longer Trip Reports!

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:25 AM
rollergator's avatar

Jeffrey R Smith said:I'm already on record in stating that all major rides should have a clearly marked dummy seat and weight/size warnings so everybody can test BEFORE getting to the station...

It is the VERY least parks could do...don't let your guests wait *forever* in a slow-moving line only to find out they can't ride...seriously, that's downright inhospitable.

"Accurate" test seats for everybody!

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:30 AM

Vincent Greene said:

And it is NOT OK to be overweight. If this society is going to shun smokers to the extent that they have, it's only fair to look at obesity in the same light. They're very similar conditions.

Except I've never heard of anybody dying from second hand fat. :)

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:47 AM
Raven-Phile's avatar ...And the lung cancer related deaths from secondhand smoke are only 12.5 out of every ONE MILLION people, while the lung cancer related deaths in people not exposed to secondhand smoke are 10 out of every ONE MILLION.

That's a 2.5 people out of every million difference, which basically boils down to squat when it comes to statistics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a smoker, but the numbers don't lie. Groups like Truth and Stand, however, they do.


R.I.P LeRoi Moore 9/7/61 - 8/19/2008
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Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:59 AM
Was the smiley in my last post not large enough, not yellow enough, or what?

Raven, it was a JOKE. So don't be getting all preachy on me here. BTW, 2.5 per million is still 2.5 per million more than have died from "second hand fat." :) :) :) Think three will do it this time?

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:15 AM
actually I bet 2.5 people out of a million die each year from second hand fat.

The overweight person who has a stroke driving down the highway. skipps the center line and head ons three cars ect.

It's probably way more than second hand smoke.

Chuck

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:36 AM
I'm a tad bigger than I should be (not considered overweight, though), and tend to have a snug fit in the coasters I like to ride. The seats could be a tad bigger, I think. If you can't fit in the ride, as much as you want to ride it, it's probably not gonna happen.
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Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:52 AM

Jeffrey R Smith said:


P.P.S. For you guys who have been denied a ride on MF (or any other ride)...did you go to customer service? Do you just get the standard generic "safety" speach? I was just wondering how the park(s) are handling the situation.


I have sent the park a couple E-mails about this issue. The first return I got was the typical canned response as it was right after the initial changes. The second one that I just sent recently received the same type of canned response with alot of re-wording. My E-mail also contained the unfortunate..."I used to visit twice a year. I'm comming 300+ miles. I will probably not come back until."...type comments.

With the canned responses, I just don't feel that they are concerned about me since i'm not from the area. I guess they don't miss all the money I used to spend in their park or at the Sandcastle for that matter. ;)

Now i'm not saying that they need to fix MF to accomodate me again. I just wish they would have responded a little more personally to my comments. *** Edited 7/29/2006 1:53:32 PM UTC by Marky Mark*** *** Edited 7/29/2006 1:54:21 PM UTC by Marky Mark***


SOB's biggest fanboy!
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Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:19 PM

Charles Nungester said:
actually I bet 2.5 people out of a million die each year from second hand fat.

The overweight person who has a stroke driving down the highway. skipps the center line and head ons three cars ect.

It's probably way more than second hand smoke.

Chuck



My cousin died in a real similar fashion to that, except it was a heart attack, not a stroke, and fortunately, he didnt hit anyone else. However, I truely belive that his mom (my aunt) lost the will to live that day and about a year later, she died, as we all believe, of a broken heart.

So chalk one up to second hand fat :).
lata, jeremy

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