HW 2009

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Spinout said:

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CreditWh0re said:Does seem a bit strange, given that the Six Flags parks are taking their Chutes rides out (yes I know they are 20+ years old).Love the idea of the access from SS, as this will help capacity issues there.Can't help but echo the concerns about Intamin Prototypes.

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The reason is because the pools are cracking, and they don't want to replace them, and Shoot-the-Chutes are old tired rides. You go up, and drop to get water on you. It's a how long ride after the lift. (10-20 seconds)This ride is going to fail just like that Intamin ride at Six Flags America. It's probably still experiencing temporary operations if you went there recently.

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Thats about the dumbest post I've read period. PROBABLY GOING TO FAIL? This is one of the first accessable from the waterpark! One of the reasons they don't go over so big is because at most parks you don't want to get wet in your street cloths. WHALA! SWIM TRUNKS.

Will hasn't made a bad move yet and I believe this will be a continuation of a pefect record since about 1990. He knows his park inside and out, top to bottom. He knows his market and he understands his customers wants and desires and adds what the park needs, NOT WHAT YOU WANT to keep it sucessful.

This park for it's market is adding at a much higher rate than many corporate parks and growing in a bad economy.

What would your choice have been?
Chuck *** Edited 8/26/2008 6:38:15 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

SPLASH ZONE CONFIRMED!

From over at (rhymes with "Beam Bark Beview".com)

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RavenMaven said:
Will there be a splash zone for spectators? Yes! We just don't have all the particulars figured out yet and so didn't include it in the animation.

Not to worry ... we "get it."

Thanks, Paula

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Surpised she didn't post that here as well...but then again I bet she's kinda busy today.

*** Edited 8/26/2008 6:58:08 PM UTC by Emiroo***

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Danimales said:
Agreed. The structure on the lift just looks out of place. I would like to see some sort of theming integrated to make it look less industrial. Of course the catch-22 is on a tower that tall, it would be expensive.

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Why theme when you can build BIG?

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CreditWh0re said:
keep that SFA fanboy attitude out of this thread. never been there, probably won't ever go there, could care less.

That's not this thread.

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What are you talking about? He wasn't hyping SFA, he was comparing one prototype Intamin water attraction to what HW is building, which happens to be a prototype Intamin water attraction. This is the place to discuss that, because no one said this had to be a HW love fest.

Anyone think that Intamin maybe built this at their facility and worked out the kinks? I know Gerstlauer (I think) puts up some of their coasters at their plant before sending them out.

I don't see Will as being one of those "lets take a risk" kind of guys. I think he made darn sure that this thing is going to work. I bet he has some kind of contingency plan with Intamin. The ride looks interesting, I like how they are going with a long less steep drop, it will build anticipation for a HUGE splash. I just wish there were a little more theming to it.

Well, he is taking a risk with this one. Just like Cedar Point took a risk with Top Thrill or Six Flags America took a risk with their lousy Intamin log flume that never works. He is also taking a risk building a water ride that appears to be terrifying. I honestly don't know if I will ride this thing and I know my fiance won't. It looks scarey.

well, i guessed a chute the chutes taller than knott's.... did not guess duel loading and elevator lift.... 1/2 credit?

I do questiont he reliability of this ride however.... considering:

A. it's intamin
B. the duel elevator thing is new, and it looks like timing of the lifts is very important

Hopefully there is a contract provision for downtime.... more than 10% downtime and it's free! ;) *** Edited 8/26/2008 8:15:43 PM UTC by mfivsdarienlake***

My one concern about the ride is that those lift PLCs are going to have to be programmed right on the money. If you'll notice, the two lifts perform a nifty little ballet where they pass each other with appropriate clearance in the middle of the lift. If the timing gets off or god forbid a PLC goes haywire and a failsafe does not kick in, we could have real nasty disaster on our hands. It would be similar to that failure on The Edge but on a much larger (and higher) scale.

The problem here is that with the dual lifts you literally have this risk on every single cycle. And in this case, it's one strike and you're out. I doubt there would be such thing as a "close call" because the tolerances appear to be so tight. I'm sure Intamin and HW will do/have done their homework but this design, while cool & innovative, poses a much greater inherent risk for catastrophe that a standard StS ride in my book.

I have the high hopes for the ride, but I fear quite a bit of downtime caused by "mis-steps" during the dual lift dance.

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eightdotthree said:
I would have preferred something smaller with more of an experience and an actual theme.

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The rendering didn't even include the splash zone and you're already making judgments on themeing. Do you eat desert before dinner, too?

^^Why wouldn't it be programmed that way? *** Edited 8/26/2008 8:18:38 PM UTC by Chris M***

1. Im reasonably sure there would be NO CHANCE OF COLLISION. It's probably the same cable or chain system for both lifts with the stops being at oposite ends so they will always pass at the same point.

One of Six Flag's biggest issues in keeping rides running used to be labor disputes, parts inventory cuts and other cutbacks. Seems they are solving most of this by removing many rides. increasing the maintainence budget and Paying a little better in that dept.

Example SFGADV visit 2001. Half the rides closed for either maintainence or staffing issues. Long lines, Thug problem and even though it wasn't very busy and the rides that were open were running at capacity. The day seemed lacking.
Visit 2008. Less rides but the place was clean, friendly, everything running and lots of security. ONLY COMPLAINT Is the DAMN LOCKER POLICY!

HW hires the staff it needs to do a adequate job. Voyage had its issues and Will spent the money that it needed including reprofiling the whole last tunnel turn and will continue to do so as he has on Raven and Legend and even the rehabs of Paul Revere and other rides, Matter of fact, thats the only ride I ever remember being down for a whole day on any one of my 25 visits.

Chuck

Well it will be programmed that way, but computers can foul up on occasion. On a coaster, it's sectioned off in blocks and you have time to stop a train(s) if something goes wrong. With this design, if the computer decides to send the empty lift down a little too early, there is not much time/room until the boat/riders coming up would get sandwiched.

I know Intamin will have plenty of sensors and failsafes included, but since this is an unproven prototype, there is a slightly greater margin for mistake/miscalculation/error. And with this design, it could be too close for comfort.

But of course, this is all from viewing a few renderings & animations. It could be that once built, there's oodles of clearance up/down/side/side and this becomes a non issue.

*Edit* - You're probably right Chuck. I have limited knowlede of lift systems and didn't even consider them doing it "the old fashioned way" ala single chain or cable. I gotta give my alarmist/pessismistic side a break.

*** Edited 8/26/2008 8:35:41 PM UTC by Emiroo***

YAY! for the splash zone!!

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matt. said:

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eightdotthree said:
I would have preferred something smaller with more of an experience and an actual theme.

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The rendering didn't even include the splash zone and you're already making judgments on themeing. Do you eat desert before dinner, too?

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Sometimes...

There is no mention of a splash zone so I don't know where you are getting that there is one. There is also no mention of theming or any ride experience other than the lift and drop in the press release either. Its just a big shoot the chutes ride with a fancy elevator lift. Their track record doesn't exactly tell me to expect anything else.

You guys gotta remember, that this can essentially work as an elevator counterweight system. The motor required to drive this only has to be relatively small. If both cars are on the same line, chord, cable, whatever then the only thing a motor would need to do is account for the extra weight to carry the people up. Also, you'd never have to worry about any car collision because they'd always be perfectly the same distance from one another.

It's actually a very, simple, efficient design.

^^ Read the third post on this page.

OK, missed that one.

^^ It will probably work very similar to an incline lift similar to this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_railway however, Intamin has a track record of taking a tried and true design and making it more complicated.

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eightdotthree said:
Their track record doesn't exactly tell me to expect anything else.

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Then don't. I'd expect the theming level to be similar to what we've seen on other rides in the park, but I don't see why that's a big deal. I don't think anyone expected Pirates of the Caribbean here, yah know? Nor does anyone expect Disneyland to build a 170ft tall, bazillion foot long wooden coaster any time soon.

CDubbs gets it. Counterweight passes same point every trip. Heck Kings Islands Eifel Tower has been running like this for 35 years and it's Intamin although the eleveators were replaced a couple years ago.