help me out here

Ok guys, could someone please help me out here? Why is the online roller coaster community so hard to get along with sometimes? Some of you guys pick on newbies and antagonize people and make big deals out of little stuff. And I just had my last topic shot down. This is a roller coaster and amusement park board--for discussion, news, and opinions. Why shoot down a topic asking for people's opinions? It's just ONE thread that wasn't a big deal. Anyway, y'all might think I'm newer because I joined back in January. But I am far from new--I was even on the old "Coaster-Talk" back when the World of Coasters still existed. I've been around here for a while, too. Anyway, y'all probably don't want to hear all this, but please try and be kinder to some of the newbies and don't be so quick to jump on their cases about something. Sure, not everyone thinks the same way and thinks to check around for information before they post, but try not to be so harsh. Not all the online forums are this way--I'm part of an automobile-related one, and they seem to act overall more civilized and kinder to each other.

rablat5 has a great point. some of the opinions are somehwhat uneducated and mean, however when everyone is thinking alike, no one is thinking. opinions are great. harshness is evil.

Opinions are fine... but if every new person shows up and on the first day asks the same question, it would get old really fast. We know this because we've been there. Any online community is a place where you need to feel out the place first, and don't start new threads at all unless you have something really new.

What makes this forum better than others is the depth of the conversation. That's why we don't allow favorite and versus threads, because they're lame and no one cares about the outcome. This is based on years of experience. It works. Quantity of topics and posts has never been important, only quality.

Does that address your concern?

In addition to depth of conversation, one thing that keeps me coming back, is the ability of many of the long timers to compose their thoughts with care. By that, not only are they well thought out, but employ the use of good grammar and break up responses into logical paragraphs (compare your initial post to Jeff's).

Call me a snob, but I find it much easier to read. Also, when a member takes the time to do this, I feel they actually care about what they are saying.

We all make mistakes, but you can tell when someone is actually trying to write well. It think it's important and that's my humble opinion.

I noticed it too. It seems like some people are only here to shoot people down and try to make them feel stupid.

It's no where near as bad as it was over a the rec.rollercoaster forum. I had to leave!

Ok, I get what you are saying, Jeff, about wanting quality of conversation. Yes, the newbies don't always get that, and people SHOULD take time to lurk around a site before posting. I lurked around CB for quite a while before actually joining (or perhaps, joining for a second time).

I wish, though, that you wouldn't have shot down my topic so quickly. I was wanting to hear other people's feelings about the parks. Sure, we get opinions in other threads, but least this one could maybe pull some of those opinions together into one thread, etc.

Jan, I understand what you said, too. I can parse things into paragraphs as well. I'm no idiot when it comes to composing intelligent sentences and such. I even got commended once by someone years ago on the old Coaster-Talk list that I wrote well.

Anyway, it would be nice if people treated each other with more dignity and respect than they sometimes do around here. Jeff, I don't feel we always have "quality" of conversation around here--look how things get off-topic and onto stuff like they did with the "Disaster Zone" thread. I could direct you to a couple of forums where I find the quality of conversation and the treatment of other is noticably better.

And, Corey, you're probably right about RRC--why even bother with that one anymore?

Probably because Newbies come on here with the TTD is the best! MF is the best. MF vs. S:ROS post ect. Which when they signed on, They agreed to the terms of this site and it's TOS meaning Vs threads, Insults ect are not tollerated.

I admitt. Back in 98-2000 before I really started traveling I did the BEAST is the best thing ect. Why? Because at the time it was my view of the coasters I had ridden. However its subjective. Everyone has a different favorite and reasons for them and it turns into a BI^^& fest when everyone is right in their own mind.

Newbies post, post that have been seen sometimes a thousand times on this and other forums. I swear if I hear MF is the best from someone who has never ridden it again, I'll explode. (I watched this coaster show the other night and NOTHING in the world could beat that!)

That being said, It's a discussion forum. Sometimes being a little creative is the way to go.
I've always been open to newbies and this site owner is too. The problem lies with those unwilling or unable to actually get out and sample some of the coasters and parks we talk about here. If your willing to learn and listen some instead of passing the No way Legend can beat Beast attitude.

Learning, while participating. Is the key, I got tons of good advice from people on these and other boards that have directed me too unforgetable times and many great coasters and parks.

Such advice got me and my brother 9 parks in ten days covering 12 states and 2200 miles and I never felt rushed at all in 2001. Parks on that trip included, Lakemont, Delgrossos, Knoebels, Quassy, SFNE, Lake Compaounce, SFGADV, Dorney and Idlewild. Heck, I even had a day to spend at Steamtown. This all costed us each under 450 bucks.

One last thing, Although I am not good at Punctuation and therefore forgive a ton of it. Post made in one long paragraph are very hard to read and often I don't even bother too read em.

Its not so much the kick the newbie game going on. It's more the newbies are speaking from experience to many who actually have the experience. If you have a question about something, A park, ride, places to stay, Check the travel plans thread first then ask.

Chuck, who still learns from those with vast more experience than me, And if your thinking these issues exist out at the parks. They don't. We're all there to have fun! *** Edited 4/25/2006 6:20:38 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

One thing that will earn you a lot more respect is if you actually have a thread title that spells out what you want. "help me out here", doesn't accomplish that. The person sitting at home is going "Help him/her with what?" The choices that pop into a veterans brain are:

a) Needs coupons
b) Doesn't know what coaster they're looking at
c) Needs tips on when the best time is to go park X on a Wednesday in July between 3:30pm and 4pm. And oh, can I get all the coasters in during that time?
d) Are there any rides which I should definitely ride at park X?
e) Needs research help on paper due tommorow because the person hasn't yet mastered going to the library or using a search engine

Ambiguous thread titles are bad, pure and simple. You see rablat5, you used the bait and switch method. Most of the members were probably thinking you wanted options a-e, but then you switched it up. Why didn't you just title your thread "Why is the online coaster community so hard to get along with sometimes?" (your second sentence), or you could've made it shorter to "Why is the online coaster community mean?" I think you would've gotten a better discussion out of it that way.

Imagine if you will that when you read the newspaper everyday or read an online news source that every topic had titles like "Baseball team", "Car", "Bad Weather", "Bombings", instead of "Orioles get stomped 15-1 by Indians", "Ford Explorer recalled for faulty tires", Tornado conditions are favorable today", and "15 soldiers killed by roadside bomb in Iraq." People would be utterly uninformed as a result. The same thing happens when people don't put thought into their thread title and then wonder why no one has responded in the last minute.

Chuck, I get what you're saying. People should try and pick up on stuff and learn before they make a fool of themselves. I've been involved in the online roller coaster community now for years--probably since 98 or 99, and my track record is somewhere in the 120s, I think.

Anyway, I guess one of the main differences between the forums that I've mentioned and this one is the diversity of ages. A couple of the auto forums that I'm a member of probably include less of the youngsters than does this one. But it still would be nicer if people acted more cordial to others. If someone comes on with a stupid post and is trying to cause trouble, don't lower yourself to their level. Answer their question directly and correctly, then leave it at that. If the threads get all long and drawn out like the "Disaster Zone" thread that I mentioned, how does that make the community look?

A word to the young newbies--don't let people look down on you because of your age, but also don't give them a reason to look down on you. Lurk, observe, collect a knowledgebase, experience, then contribute.

As for what intaminfan has stated, perhaps you are correct that I should have made the topic something else. But have you gotten anything that I'm saying? If I remember correctly, you were knocking me on one of my other posts, which didn't really seem very kind. Perhaps I'm expecting too much of the roller coaster community, but it would be nice if we could talk to each other with a bit more dignity, respect, and cordiality. *** Edited 4/25/2006 6:44:10 PM UTC by rablat5***

True, In some cases you are walking into a inside joke. People will say your favorite sux, just to get your goat

All I was stating was that many just jump in here with the Greatest and Vs threads and it's all subjective and against the TOS they agreed too.

Im not the first to say Jeff and his staff can seem like jerks at times. Some maybe, Some may not be but I agree it's their site and their rules to impose as they see fit. The fact is the rules are there and many never bother to read before posting.

There are other open forums, Even a uncensored one in RRC. You'll see instances there of domination or just plain far meaner than this site allows on it.

If there was a perfect forum and perfect rules and everyone followed them to the letter though, Im sure someone would find faults.

Chuck

How 'bout a quiz over the TOS to see if you actually read it before you can start posting? :)

I like that idea.

Without beating a dead horse rablat…I think it is most important that you understand that Cedar Point is a much better park than Six Flags Magic Mountain and wooden coasters are indeed superior to all steel coasters! Furthermore, most of these buzzers with leftist political views are wrong, but just too stubborn to admit it! :-)

Once you assimilate and accept these simple facts, you’ll get along just fine!

...feel free to individually delete my hijack as I simply cannot help myself sometimes! :-)

Wow, a quiz may be just the thing!

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Jeffrey R Smith said:
Without beating a dead horse rablat…I think it is most important that you understand that Cedar Point is a much better park than Six Flags Magic Mountain and wooden coasters are indeed superior to all steel coasters! Furthermore, most of these buzzers with leftist political views are wrong, but just too stubborn to admit it! :-)

Once you assimilate and accept these simple facts, you’ll get along just fine!

...feel free to individually delete my hijack as I simply cannot help myself sometimes! :-)

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C'Mon, Jeff! Everyone knows that SFMM is gonna kill CP this year because of the new management and the superior coaster count record! Oh, and steel is SO much better than wood :P

I can play too :) *** Edited 4/25/2006 7:33:14 PM UTC by rablat5***

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rablat5 said:
I wish, though, that you wouldn't have shot down my topic so quickly.

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I didn't shoot it down... I said where you'll find plenty of the information you were looking for. You were looking for a survey, and a survey is really just another favorite/best/worst/versus topic. There's no meaningful aggregation that you can compile from that, especially when it involves a half-dozen or so parks.

Don't take it personally. Yours was the first topic I've closed in many months, and it was simple enough to explain why.

There has been a lot of discussion around the Internet lately about the "wisdom of the masses," and what the discussion generally leads to is the point that the bigger the audience, the more the undesirable portion of the bell curve appears in your community. That's why we moderate, to make sure that the expectations of what we like to see around here are clear. I think we've done a good job with it for six years now.

Some people don't like that community style, and that's fine. No one is making them participate here anyway. Besides, do you really want people here who just ***** about it anyway?

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Jeff said:

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There has been a lot of discussion around the Internet lately about the "wisdom of the masses," and what the discussion generally leads to is the point that the bigger the audience, the more the undesirable portion of the bell curve appears in your community. That's why we moderate, to make sure that the expectations of what we like to see around here are clear. I think we've done a good job with it for six years now.

Some people don't like that community style, and that's fine. No one is making them participate here anyway. Besides, do you really want people here who just ***** about it anyway?

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I agree with you here. But I still don't think we always get the "quality" conversation that you talked about. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here. But there are a lot of people who act (I'll go ahead an say it) immature at times. Sure, my topic may not have been the best according to some, but I wanted to see what other people had to say and how they felt.

Actually, another thread prompted me into creating that one. Perhaps next time, I can be less general or something.

I still, though, think that, in general, people could try and be more cordial and friendly and less brutal and harsh. The way some people act, it just seems to show immaturity.

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Then perhaps you should create your own forum rather than tell others how to run theirs and their users how to behave.

Just a thought. :)

Of course we don't get the quality we'd like all of the time! You think this is what we do for a living? Part-time for me, maybe, but the rest of the mods (of which only two are really active) are volunteers. We have lives, we don't read every post, stuff slips under the radar.

As soon as you start talking about maturity, people are going to call you out and ask how mature it is to be harping on it, calling others out on it, or not just walking away from it. Again, circle of life, I've seen it happen time after time.

OK, be cordial most of the time, but be sure to smack down Jeffrey Smith with written whoopa$$ each time he pops up with his anger issues (the mole that he is). ;)

*** Edited 4/25/2006 9:02:52 PM UTC by janfrederick***