Has SF customer service gotten better
Like Jeffrey, I remember things looking great in May (and April at SFoT) and then taking a sharp turn downwards right around July. I have no reason to believe this year will be any different (yet).
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
We can give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt. Frankly, I think he IS heading in the right direction, on the right road. Taking on $2.2B in debt with a poor customer image of the product and sagging attendance - means he needs to be in the fast lane. ;)
The same story played out city after city as he toured each Six Flag's park. Jeff linked local media reports on CB and they all read the same. Within months many (most?) of the promises Shapiro made were rescinded…without nearly the public debacle he made announcing the changes in the first place.
I interpret Shapiro breaking his public promises as a sign of either bad character OR (more likely) a man who has bitten off more than he can chew. Either way it goes back to my premise…Six Flags does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of intentions…there is good chance that the ship cannot be righted due to the debt load inherited.
I think I’ve answered your question…now a few of my own!
- Why are you willing to let Shapiro off the hook for firing the costumed characters given he so proudfully boasted costumed characters as a primary tool in returning the company to glory?
- Why does Shapiro go unscathed when Magic Mountain still has multiple ride breakdowns in 2007…given that Shapiro promised this type of stuff would end under his reign ala his 2006 park tour?
- Was it Burke's fault that around July the parks started getting dirty in 2006?
- Does anybody remember Shapiro denouncing unused trains or coasters as an example of poor operations (I do)…should he be held to his word?
- At which point would it be acceptable to start blaming Shapiro for Six Flag snafus rather than blaming somebody who is no longer in charge? Is it 2007? 2008? Let me know when the moratorium on Shapiro worship ends…
*** Edited 5/18/2007 12:01:04 AM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
Jeffrey R Smith said:
- Why are you willing to let Shapiro off the hook for firing the costumed characters given he so proudfully boasted costumed characters as a primary tool in returning the company to glory?
After personal witnessesing and reading numerous 2007 trip reports from across the board with accounts of numerous licensed characters roaming the parks, with the addition of new ones, I am able to do so.
There was never an official confirmation that Shapiro fired costumed character employees last season. Was it not purely speculative just because the numbers fluctuated during the season? And even if this WERE to be true, there were still characters out and about at parks no matter the number, which is more than I can say for before Shapiro stepped in and took control. See the trend? Improvement over past management.
Why does Shapiro go unscathed when Magic Mountain still has multiple ride breakdowns in 2007…given that Shapiro promised this type of stuff would end under his reign ala his 2006 park tour?
What multiple ride breakdowns in 2007 are you referring to? Did you mean "intentional ride closures due to staffing or no budget" Because that hasn't happened, not this year at that park.
Virtually every attraction at this park sans Metro (slated to return this summer) and Flashback (slated for removal later this year) have been operating on a daily basis. I am quite confident you have been reading the recent trip reports.
Rides will break down once in awhile on a day-to-day basis. They are machines lest you have forgotten. And kudos to Magic Mountain for being able to bring them into back into operation as soon as possible.
It's just so easy and convenient for you to use Magic Mountain as a quick general example, taking advantage of the basis that you know everyone here is so familiar with its past issues. Good one. Very clever tactic. Didn't fly by me though.
Was it Burke's fault that around July the parks started getting dirty in 2006?
Cedar Fair, Anheuser Busch, and Disney parks can get dirty. It's all on personal account and purely subjective. Naysayers will see ONE Six Flags trashbin slightly overflowing and will report it as "there was trash everywhere at the park and very dirty." You are pooling a few instances from a few locations last season to make a chainwide generalization.
Does anybody remember Shapiro denouncing unused trains or coasters as an example of poor operations (I do)…should he be held to his word?
He definitely did and he should be held to his word. And he's been doing a good job so far, if it's him that's behind Goliath and Tatsu's three train operation (all others in two train operation), citing an example of this past weekend.
At which point would it be acceptable to start blaming Shapiro for Six Flag snafus rather than blaming somebody who is no longer in charge? Is it 2007? 2008? Let me know when the moratorium on Shapiro worship ends…
Considering we aren't even halfway through the very first full year that Shapiro has been holding the reigns...I'd say you'd have to give it a year or two. You and I both know one can't turn ship in a snap. It takes time. For you to expect a new management team to change everything that's wrong with the company's 12 parks that quickly is a bit hasty.
Yes, and that's human nature. And that behavior isn't restricted to theme parks. How many people do you know who have told you they'd never buy a (insert brand name of vehicle here) again because they had a bad experience with theirs? And how many people do you think they told that? Have you ever avoided a business, like a restaurant, because of someone else's recommendation? People do that all the time. Dissatisfied customers will tell as many people as they can about their bad experiences.
OK, in this one case, many of the coasters opened later. But what good does that do for the people who didn't wait around that long? How many of them left the park pissed off because 6 major rides weren't open? Do you think any of them logged on here the next day and found out that the rides actually did open later in the day?
The point I'm making is that for this industry customer service is not one event experienced jointly by thousands of people, but rather thousands of individual experiences. I don't see how any park, especially this chain, can view any customer's experience as "expendable."
Maybe some will argue that's OK, having fewer people spending more money is more important. But how do you know that one ticked off customer didn't convince other families willing to spend several hundred dollars not to visit a Six Flags Park? Until they show they're willing to give 100 percent to every guest, like Jeffrey said, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I don't see how someone could get excited that a business has improved to the fact that they're now offering the absolute basic customer service-- not exceptional, just average. Kinda like getting excited because you found a station selling gas for "ONLY" $2.99. Is it really that good of a deal?
And $3.46 for water was a bit excessive. I don't mind the raised prices on everything else, but for water...
RGB summarized things pretty nicely (as he has a habit of doing). No customer should be considered expendable because word-of-mouth advertising is a powerful thing.
My first car was a Saturn, and I loved that thing so much that I bought another one after convinving four of my friends to do the same. When the transmission on my second Saturn killed itself at 57K miles and cost me close to $4K, I swore off Saturns and no one ever again bought a Saturn based on my recommendation. In fact, I managed to prevent two people from buying Saturns (people seem to take my advice when it comes to buying cars because I'm so nuts about the things.) Maybe I was expendable to Saturn as one customer but I went from basically selling their cars to sending people to Honda and Toyata dealers for Civics and Corollas. Like wildfire, negative opinions spread very fast.
Getting back to the point, this isn't about one single, solitary trip report- this is about a possible return to the way things were. Maybe Shapiro and Six Flags are walking the right path- I'm not going to dismiss the probability of that. But let's look at the big picture:
1. Six Flags parks have sucked for many years on a number of levels.
2. Shapiro & Co. made a lot of promises last year and by the end of the season, a lot of parks returned to being the miserable places they were the year before.
I'm not going to complain about anyone singing the praises of the new regime, but I'm certainly not going to fault anyone that's either cautiously optimistic or downright against the chain. New leaders alone aren't going to change things- it's their actions that will do that. And right now, they need to earn a little respect rather than getting credit for the things they say.
Until everything is as good as it should be, there's going to be negativity. I suggest we learn to accept it because it's definitely not going to be leaving this site anytime soon.
*** Edited 5/18/2007 1:29:49 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
Shapiro’s words…not mine.
Found this great Shapiro interview from Februrary 21, 2006 (seems the guy has been around longer than some have indicated) searching the news link. This is good reminder of where Six Flags was at 15 months ago…and pertinent to the current discussion.
http://themeparks.about.com/od/sixflagsarticles/a/shapiro2006.htm
When asked about specific changes in the very same interview where he acknowledges failure to deliver on promises…Shapiro had this to say (paraphrased)…
- We'll have 15 to 20 characters every hour of every operating day. They'll do autographs, digital photos, and character meals.
- Every single park will have a daily parade.
- Most Six Flags-branded parks will have fireworks this season.
- We're adding more stunt shows.
I ask in good faith…did he deliver on his promises?
Seems those who want to defend Shapiro have set a bar so low that ANYTHING goes and he’s immune to criticism. I’m just holding the man to his own standard and words. Is there anything wrong with expecting the man to uphold his own word?
At the time of this interview enthusiasts were bursting with compliment toward the man who was the saving grace. This same interview played out city after city and every Coasterbuzz news posting was met with cautious optimism to outright pipe dreams. Now those who support Shapiro without any sense of scrutiny point to…
- the right response to the six coasters down thing - in previous years they wouldn't have opened at all. This year they did...slow improvement.
- there were still characters out and about at parks no matter the number, which is more than I can say for before Shapiro stepped in and took control. See the trend? Improvement over past management.
The bar has been lowered just a bit...wouldn't you say?
I’ll buy into this from you defenders…YEA…improvement indeed. Do your examples fit into Shapiro’s term of “delivering on promise?” Or has Shapiro underdelivered on his promises?
I think that answer is obvious to anybody objectively reading the mans promises and performance. If you choose to ignore the gap between the man’s words and performance and STILL maintain a positive outlook…I’ll grant that as reasonable (but a bit confusing). The progress is indeed miniscule…but I can see your point.
I choose to look at Shapiro as another guy who made promises he could not keep. If he can’t keep his word on costumed characters then I’m going to be skeptical of ANY promise the man makes. Much like the rest of the Six Flags chain…he no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. The bulk of promise and content that Shapiro touted ala tour 2006 is gone with the wind… Months of hype and word proved to be just that…
Combine Shapiro’s promise failures with the fact that his major West Coast park is demonstrating some of the same MAJOR failures (ala multiple ride breakdowns at WAY ABOVE industry standards) 15-16 months into his tenure…I will call him on it.
You defend the man at risk of your own credibility. His promises are all over the web…they were done consistently in multiple cities…and in the end they were lies.
He may well turn out to be a savior as nobody can predict the future. But the point is that his past performance gives no reason for undo optimism. I just don’t understand the urge to give Shapiro and this company the benefit of the doubt. They’ve never done anything to earn it.
*** Edited 5/18/2007 2:36:25 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
I never said things are perfect. I think I said quite the opposite.
Going to a SF park now seems to be a much better experience than going in 2005 based on the info coming back with people who have visited - it seems things are improving.
Wait, let me check the title of the thread again...
That's what I thought - "Has SF customer service gotten better"
Yes, it apparently has.
- We'll have 15 to 20 characters every hour of every operating day. They'll do autographs, digital photos, and character meals.
You walk around Six Flags Great America this year, and you can't go far without seeing a character. They are everywhere.
- Every single park will have a daily parade.
Six Flags Great America had a daily parade last year, but they have completely re-done it for this year. With all new floats they now have a new afternoon parade that goes around the back of the park daily, and then the nightly parade at night.
- Most Six Flags-branded parks will have fireworks this season.
He kept this promise last year, as Great America brought back the fireworks at night. And I have no doubt it will continue again this year once the park is open late enough.
- We're adding more stunt shows.
Operation SpyGirl Stunt Show is new at Great America this year. First time Great America has had a stunt show in years.
So as far as Great America goes, he has kept all his promises. And I am sure the same goes for every other Six Flags park, only exception being the Stunt Show. But he said Operation Spygirl would go into other Six Flags parks if it goes well at Great America.
*** Edited 5/18/2007 9:12:27 PM UTC by CoasterDude316***
For clarification purposes...nobody asks for perfection. Maybe just two coasters down at once could pass for reasonable progress.
I was merely pointing out that Shapiro promised Tweety Bird out the wazoo, parades, nightly fireworks, etc. He even hinted at surprises above and beyond reasonable expectations…
- But people will forgive us if we over-deliver on the overall guest experience.
What we’ve got is inconsistent park performance, unfulfilled promises, and in certain circumstances…a glimmering hope that on those days 25% of the coasters are down, a few of them might open later in the day if you stick it out.
But I do grant you that the above is actually better than a few years ago. This type of optimism is to be commended. Heart disease would certainly decline should everybody have such a positive outlook in the face of such dismal performance. ;)
As for old-scrooge Smith…I’m waiting for that over-delivery. I tend to be like that. When somebody makes a promise, I look at the results rather than the words.
But hey…Six Flags park manager is online telling us that Kentucky Kingdom is going to be the shizzil this year…why should I not believe him? ;)
This type of optimism is to be commended. Heart disease would certainly decline should everybody have such a positive outlook in the face of such dismal performance.
That level of creative presentation will not work against the master of such tactics. ;)
Are the parks a better experience than they were before Shaprio was given control? I say yes.
Cite whatever you'd like, reason it however you want. The reports coming from the parks say they're better than they used to be - even if on the worst of levels it means six coasters in one park on one day operated for a partial day rather than not at all. (some > none)
If forward progress represents dismal performance, then I don't even know how to discuss such issues - I'm apparently operating on an entirely different unit of measurement.
Shapiro promised Tweety Bird out the wazoo
Now that sounds down right painful to me. I guess since Six Flags has been sticking it to their customers for years, that would be a logical progression.... ;) *** Edited 5/18/2007 10:24:04 PM UTC by sws***
Finally, something we can agree on... :)
Let me just say that I am planning on a SFKK trip this summer since I moved so close to the park. I really don't want to waste my money, so I am really hoping that they will be doing better so that I can have a great visit.
I do have the fear that something will go wrong the day I am at the park, mostly because of my horrible trips to SFGAdv, SFA, and the old SFO. If I spend craploads of money on a park visit, they better deliver a good product.
I am yet again taking a chance. I feel reluctant to even think about visiting any SF parks again. I really believe that this is the last chance I'll give the company, and if everything goes wrong the day of my visit to the new-to-me SF park, I'll ask for my money back and never return.
People are fed up. Not just me. Shapiro better keep checking the CoasterBuzz Meeting calender to figure out when I am visiting so he can make sure every thing's in order. I hope that they are ready to deliver on their promises.
dexter said:
I do have the fear that something will go wrong the day I am at the park, mostly because of my horrible trips to SFGAdv, SFA, and the old SFO.... I am yet again taking a chance.
THWAK. That's the sound of the nail being hit on the head.
Jeffrey and Gonch, you're both right. How's that for remaining neutral and diplomatic? Gonch is right because Shapiro promised improvements and from what we can tell so far, improvements are being made. But Jeffrey is right because we went down this road last year, only to find that it was jammed with traffic because a semi flipped.
The ultimate measure of success when it comes to this matter? No one- whether it be a coaster enthusiast or someone from the general public- having to fear a bad experience or worry about having made the right decision to go to a Six Flags park. Improvements are great but improvements only mean something when they can be counted on with regularity.
*** Edited 5/19/2007 4:24:26 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***
It would be extra nice if I got my money back from all those times I went and was treated poorly too, but we all know that'll never happen.
I just want to have confidence in the park when I go. It'll take time and a lot of "positive experiences" for me respect them completely again. They better be on their toes, because I can't be the only park guest who feel this way. Of course I don't want to see them fail. The chain has some top rated rides and potential for greatness.
In my 3 trips this year were much better and efficiant than my first 3 trips of last year. To deny that Six Flags MAY be headed in the right direction is not right in my opinon. The parks that I go to just seem to be getting better every year and I hope that you can learn to be optimistic about the company because I believe that it's in the process of its great turnaround.
So hopefully in August when I'm enjoying Superman:Ride of Steel and El Toro with great operations that you may be able to give the new Six Flags managment a first or second chance!
Nitro is the greatest.
You must be logged in to post
