Has anyone been to GL's Wild Water kingdom this year?

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:36 AM

I thought that Villian was the biggest "lost" ride from gl. It would change if dipper came down, but there is still hope for dipper. I wish the economy was better. I'm not a big waterpark guy, but with sone new stuff over there, it would be a great asset to the Aurora area. It would have been a really great park if they connected the old waterpark in front of the gl side to the waterpark now and possibly kept shipwreck falls(which closed the park it went to).

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:54 AM

Really wish they would move Big Dipper. Guess it needs to stay in Ohio but not sure about CP or KI getting that kind of ride. Maybe an add to the Columbus Zoo or Strickers Grove.


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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:36 PM

I really think it would be a great fit at Cedar Point. It would bring the coaster count up and give some historical value to the park.I know Dipper is still available and it would fit in nicely. It would be great for the pr of cedar point. They could use it right now and would breath some life into the Cleveland area, which could also use it.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:39 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar

That's a huge investment for a ride that's awfully close to the Blue Streak. I don't even think enough people would care if they moved the Dipper to CP.


R.I.P LeRoi Moore 9/7/61 - 8/19/2008
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:41 PM

Well I like it a lot better than Blue Streak (of course home park is KI so have Racer). We went the final year of Geauga Lake and my son and I rode Big Dipper 9x in a row. I really love that old ride and hope it goes somewhere and back to life.


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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:00 PM

I think it is different enough from Blue streak. There is the turn around than drop. It was also buily by John Miller in the 20's. John Miller was very important in coaster history and some of his designs are still used on today's rides. I think there is a place for dipper.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:01 PM
Jeff's avatar

I always thought Dipper sucked. Relocating wood coasters still seems odd to me. Look at the Kiddieland coaster they "moved" to Six Flags Great America. It's like 10% the original ride at most.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:15 PM

I agree with you Jeff. ( but not about Dipper sucking, I can agree to disagree on that one)There would be alot of new wood used. Don't forget that wood coasters get some wood replaced every year as well. Relocating it would give the ability to bring it back to original, before the layout was changed. It has been done before by smaller parks. knobels moved Phoenix back in the 80's and has been well ridden since then. Ohio in general has to pay more attention to it's history, I believe.Think of all the generations that have ridden dipper. I know it is only a coaster, but it has been a part of Ohio's entertainment for 83 years!! That is alot of smiles!!

Last edited by ffej, Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:20 PM
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:26 PM
Jeff's avatar

But I'm gonna be the realist again. If it was so fantastic in the first place, whey didn't people go out to ride it in numbers that would have made it a sustainable business.

We can dream all you want about preserving the ride, but the cold reality is that there has to be a business case to do so.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:37 PM

I don't want to go into the whole why gl closed thing. I can also say "why isn't it fantastic if it operated in a park for 83 years?" As far as a business case goes, lets say it takes 3-4 mil to move it and get it up and running. Where can you find a long coaster for that kind of money, never mind the ohio historical value to go with it. The publicity would be great and it would start to change the pr nightmares they are going through right now. I really like cedar point, I liked Geauga lake very much as well. I see alot of positive that can come with this, and I know the ride is available to be moved. I agree the best place for dipper is in Aurora, however, there is alot of stuff that needs to be done for that to happen which would be a much greater cost.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:41 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Jeff said:
Relocating wood coasters still seems odd to me. Look at the Kiddieland coaster they "moved" to Six Flags Great America. It's like 10% the original ride at most.

Yeah. That's where it starts to hurt my brain.

What exactly is being 'saved' and isn't it a rebuild and not a relocation at some point (well before the 90% different line)?

Seems like an awfully grey area.


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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:00 PM
mlnem4s's avatar

As a former rides team lead when Funtime owned Geauga Lake back in the 80's, I spent some decent time working up on Dipper. When it was taken care of properly it was a great ride; it would haul butt, rode the tracks well and was very re-rideable. During the Six Flags years and after, to me it lost its rideability which could have been the result of reduced care/maintenance. Wood coasters are like that, they are an ongoing investment that need tender loving care; treat them well and they perform well. I think it could be brought back to the same rideability and popularity as, say, the Thunderbolt at Kennywood if someone cared enough.

As for WWK, it concerns me about the future of the water park when I have friends who are full time there. They bust their butt trying to make the park work, yet I continue to believe a biggest part of the problem comes out of Sandusky who treat the place like it is an after thought. Under new ownership I think it would do "swimmingly" well :)

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:00 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar

Jeff said:
I always thought Dipper sucked.

I am of similar opinion. While I would say that sucking is a bit severe, I don't think it's anything special. Then again, I'll take Twister over Phoenix at Knoebel's any day. I'm more of a fan of intense rides that have a lot of directional changes, not so much the up-and-down traditional out and back rides.


R.I.P LeRoi Moore 9/7/61 - 8/19/2008
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:06 PM

Jeff said:
If it was so fantastic in the first place, whey didn't people go out to ride it in numbers that would have made it a sustainable business.


With the exception of the 1st couple of years of a new ride, people go to a park, not to a single ride. How many people have said it doesn't matter if a ride is down, there are many more?

I bet most people go to, say, CP not to ride Magnum, but to ride all the rides. (Or to MM, not just to ride Tatsu. Etc) Apparently people did not shell out $25 to go to Geauga Lake. That is not the question. The question is would people be willing to pay for the Big Dipper in conjunction with a park's other offerings.

Or, perhaps the Big Dipper was hugely profitable, it was the rest of the park that lost money. Or, maybe the rest of the park made $$$, it was the coaster that bankrupted the place :)


ffej said:
As far as a business case goes, lets say it takes 3-4 mil to move it and get it up and running.

From the rcdb entry on the Arkansas Twister, which was relocated from Florida in 1992: "Cost: Purchased from Boardwalk and Baseball for $10,000. Relocation and reconstruction however brought the total investment to nearly $900,000."

Last edited by Captain Hawkeye, Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:07 PM

This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:18 PM

From the rcdb entry on the Arkansas Twister, which was relocated from Florida in 1992: "Cost: Purchased from Boardwalk and Baseball for $10,000. Relocation and reconstruction however brought the total investment to nearly $900,000."

Thank you for this post. I know the probable cost would be 1.5-2 mil. I was making most costly scenerio. I know the trains would have to be overhauled as well. To me it would be a huge investment, but to cedar point, that is a very minimal expense for the pr it would recieve.

Last edited by ffej, Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:19 PM
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:37 PM

Yes understand the move is a dismantle and rebuild as semi-old and new. But still it is the layout and design that will reside and hopefully some of the station/track. I agree it wont be an 'original' but dont care. Still love that little coaster and prefer it over lots of others.


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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:55 PM
Jeff's avatar

But at that point, why not just build new? And if you're not willing to do that, you probably don't need the ride.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:12 PM

History. That is why not build new. It has something that nothing new can have. It was built and designed by one of the most important people ever in the coaster world.

Cedar point wants to be everything to everybody. that is how you get a monopoly on the amusement park industry. 20 years ago they went for the thrill market.Just 3 years ago they pushed for the " family " with the all new kids area( gl rides). What is wrong with going for the " classic" area of the park. Kennywood does very well with this. why not have a large classic area with classic rides to capture that audience. kennywood's attendance went up pretty good after gl closed. Why not keep that business in state? Use the rich history of our former parks to get people in the gates as well. You would instantly bring in the Geauga lake, Euclid beach, Idora and the Chippewa folks into the park.There is a huge market that is untapped by cedar point.

They already have the Euclid beach carousel, could have the geauga lake carousel and I am sure they could come up with a tumblebug and rides like that.You even have the lake for a boardwalk in an area that is not heavily populated right now, which is close to the gate.

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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:13 PM
Lord Gonchar's avatar

Jeff said:
But at that point, why not just build new?

Yeah, exactly.

If it's the layout and design of the ride that's what we're worried about 'saving' then one can easily preserve history while leaving Big Dipper there to rot.

Because at this point all I've learned is that any pieces that might make it from the original is purely a symbolic move.

With that said, let's have a new outlook on cloned rides. It's not a cheap way of building coasters, it's 'saving' them. :)

Last edited by Lord Gonchar, Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:14 PM
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Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:16 PM
DantheCoasterman's avatar

Because a "new" 2680ft-long coaster costs more than $2 million, and has absolutely no nostalgic value.


-Daniel

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