"Forceless" Beemers, and why we love 'em all

Enough people must still like 'em. Any reasonably busy park will always have a long line for any B & M with seats. Standups, well , maybe not, but they must've done something right on everything else.

And now very few parks have them. I don't know what Paramount has against a beemer at every park, but most of the parks that matter have 2 or 3. There is a reason for that. There is a reason that SFGAm has 4 B&Ms with rumors of another, and they got rid of 1 of 2 Arrows. How many Intamins, Vekos do they have again?

Ironically it's the more forceful B&M's that don't get much lovin' (in the enthusiast community that is). Standups are every bit as intense as inverts IMHO. Out of the B&M's I've ridden, two that I have thought of as "forceless" get rave reviews (Kraken, Wildfire).

That said, forceless or not, they're all fun, beautifully engineered coasters. I'm always glad to hear about another park installing a B&M product.

I think this notion outlined in the thread's title that some seem to have is really silly. Anyone who would generalize B&M coasters to being "forceless" has not sampled all of the platter. There are several I have ridden that I can see being placed in the not-very-forcefull category. Medusa @ GAdv was very(surprisingly) weak, but it was incredibly fun. Now if that were the only sitdown B&M I had ridden and I was arrogant enough to assume I could generalize a B&M from that experience I would say they are forceless. Now head down to Florida and ride Kumba and you are in for a world of difference. It does not float through its inversions, it powers through them so this ride offers a totally different experience, even though they *look* similar. I know many people do not like Chang, but I don't think anyone could say this is a forceless coaster- quite the opposite. (And you do not get hangtime in Kumba or Chang's loops- rear/feat to the seat/floor the whole time)

My whole point is that they're not all even close to being the same because they're all designed(Stengel in almost all these cases) intentionally to have different forces according to what the park was asking for. It has nothing to do with B&M. Or Intamin. Or B&M vs. Intamin.

Now if you want to argue about how to define "forceless" or whether or not said coaster fits into this definition... that's an entirely separate argument! For example, when I rode Nitro last year(for the first time) I experienced ejector air and floating air on all of the hills and I blacked out on the helix. To me, this is not forceless. When I rode SROS @ SFA(I know its the crappiest of the ROS's) last year(for the first time) The drop was not exciting, the first hill offered very(!) brief floater(if you could call it that) air, ejector hill was amazing, long boring flat helix, long straight track... some fun bunny hills. Now this, or many parts at least, was a lot closer to a "forceless" ride to me. And yes, Stengel designed this one too, but I have a funny feeling SFI had a way of extremely limiting his design in this case!

So please.. there is no B&M vs Intamin or any generalizations of either because it simply does not make sense. :)

Other than airtime, I don't like strong forces on steel coasters. I much prefer the hangtime in the oversized loops over graying out in a tight Arrow loop. I'm anxious to try the "forceless" Hydra. I bet I'd really enjoy it. I prefer the gentle Great Bear over the intense Batmen. However, I found SFGAm's Supes to be a total bore myself (other than the pretzel loop).
I love the Kumba Thingy. I'd like to see a coaster full of Kumba thingy's and dive loops--no flatspns or cobra rolls. Interestingly, I really enjoyed Batman Knight Flight on several visits.

I've never been on a "Forceless" Beemer. SFGAm's S:UF's pretzel loop is incredible. Raging Bull is Amazing. Montu kicks. Kumba hurt. B:TR packs a good punch. Hulk is, well, Hulk. Iron Wolf is like putting yourself in a blender and pressing Puree. S:KC at SFFT has some good stuff. Dueling Dragons was about the most "Forceless" that I've been on.

What do people want? 3:45 of pure force?

AV - Hydra is about as forceless as sitting on your couch. Not judging it either way... just commenting on its actual intensity.

If anything, some elements (flatspins) are too forceful on Beemers. My wife has been practically scared off coasters for good after getting ear boxed on all the Florida Beemers. I'm able to stick my head out and avoid it, but she's just not tall enough.

I love all Beemers, even Shiekra! Speaking of... BGT has got it all if you love them beemers. The Kumba and Montu combo is pure coaster riding bliss.

I rode Silver Bullet for the first time about a week ago, and I must say I enjoyed my rides(all 5 of them) very much. It "flowed" very well, almost too well. It went from element to element with no interuptions or shakes. The overbanked turn definently was a different feeling. It really didn't get intense until the end, with the helix and flat spins. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but looking back on it, I should have spent some more time on Ghostrider.

---

coasterkid16 said:
And to go on Record, I actually pretty much hate All beemer stand up coasters other than Georgia Scorcher......

---

AMEN!!!

I love ALL B&M coasters. Fun, Safe, High Capacity, and Reliable. Never encountered one closed.

Anybody know why Disney don't buy Beemers, of any interest?

Iron Wolf rocks. Hard. +5, baby. :)

What's funny with Disney is that they buy Vekoma's and Intamin's(obviously that paid off real well). I don't understand; Intamin isn't known for their reliability and Vekoma is kind of known for their "dollar store" coasters.

Count me in as a fan of Iron Wolf. Although it bumps my head around, it doesn't reall bother me on that one. I love the layout and the back row airtime off of the ex-MCBR and that reverse Raven-esque lateral hop thingy after the "elongated loop" thingy.

So was Nitro alwaus braked to death? When I rode it in June of its first year, I thought it was fantastic. And I rode Supes at SF America the day before and Supes at SFNE the day after. I thought it blew away the SFA Supes, but SFNE's was just amazing.

I'd rather a classic Arrow then B&M. Give me the Big Bad Wolf, or Loch Ness Monster. Give me SROS at SFNE, and I'll completely forget about B&M. That is the #1 coaster of the steel coasters that I have ridden. Hell they take the Top #3 or 4. Sros, Millennium Force, Storm Runnner, TTD, and I have yet to ride Kingda Ka. I guess that would make them in my top 4 or 5. Intamin pushes design much more then B&M, and that is why I respect them more.

Coasterfantom2,

So you have an Intamin top 5. Good for you. But, how many times have you been to a park with these coasters and they be shut down for some reason for another. Heck, TTD still has issues, albeit not as big as it used to be, but still does.

So you would rather ride an un-reliable coaster (my opinion) then when you know a beemer is gonna be open? That makes no sense to me at all.

As for forceless coasters that B&M makes, I haven't not been on one that I didn't like.

Raptor, Alpie, Montu, Kumba, Mantis. All of these coasters pack a serious punch. Mantis I felt the G-s through my legs. Was a bit uncomfortable, but better then any TOGO stand-up.

I get to add DD, Hulk, and SheiKra to that in less then a month! wOOt!

Katie

EDIT: I would rather ride a Beemer that doesn't push the envelope, then watch a big freakin lawn ornament sit at a park broken down. *** Edited 8/4/2005 12:03:30 PM UTC by CoastinKatie***

The only B&M I have been on that I didn't enjoy was Mantis. Everything after the inclined loop was painful and NOT meant for a stand-up coaster. However, Nitro and Apollo's Chariot rank 1-2 on my hyper list ahead of Magnum and Steel Force. Raptor, Talon, Batman, Montu, and Alpengeist all rank in my top 15 (out of 56). Kumba was one of the sickest rides I have ever been on, and Medusa was also awesome.

Yeah, so basically I like B&M :).

B&M should ask for a refund from the company that constructed the steel for SFMM's Scream, Geauga's Dominator, and SFNE's Batman Knight Flight. Those three seem to have an odd vibration during the ride, as if there are tiny little bumps on the rails.

^Seems to me that Walter Bolliger doesn't ride every design he creates after the coaster is built. Other than that, he would have known the odd vibration during the ride.

Never been on either of the three Beemer's you listed, so I'm not familiar with the vibration. I plan to ride Scream in 2007.

I think the vibration comes from crappy wheels and loose springs, not the steel.