Fight on the beast's loading platform.

Monday, April 30, 2007 3:29 PM
I was in line for the beast this sunday just before the park was getting ready to close, and a big fight broke out on the loading platform. Within only a few min, security and EMS was there wisking people away. It included several people. It was a good sized fight (about 5-8 people). All that we could see was fists flying everywhere.

The sad part of it all, was all the kids that were waiting in line that had to see these idiots fight. One little girl was in tears because the was so scared.

Come to find out, the fight may have been over a few people that line jumped in front of someone. If this is the case, the parks need to start doing something more about line jumpers like actually watching the lines. I am not saying that it was ok to start a fight over, but with the way people are these days it woulden't suprise me if this type of thing starts to happen a lot more.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 3:52 PM
A year or two ago some woman at VF was attacked in line for Steel Venom when she confronted some line jumpers. It is the wannabe thugs who think they can skip the line and escalate things to violence.
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Monday, April 30, 2007 3:56 PM
I wouldn't blame the park. No matter how hard they try, there are always going to be people who think they can cut in front of others. Even the ticket system SFGAm used when Batman was brand new wasn't perfect. They would just collect the tickets, not bothering to check if they were sequential.
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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:02 PM
^^ Wasn't that back in 03 when SV first opened?

I was just thinking of how SFA's new no loose items permitted on superman & wild one might lead to more incidents of line jumpers using the classic "I had to put my friends things in the locker & they're up ahead waiting for me" excuse leading to an increase in queue line fights as if the situation there wasn't bad enough to begin with without this policy being in effect.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:18 PM
I was at the park on Sunday and I have to say that the line jumping was unreal. Three times throughout our day rides that we were on were held up because of these knuckleheads thinking that they are entitled to cut in front of you and if caught, are entitled to giving you a beatdown at the ride exit if you snitch.

Screw 'em. I really wish people these days would grow a pair and stand up against them. Most of all, I wish the parks would grow a pair and kick them out of the PARK instead of taking them off the ride!

And for those who want to make line jumping a racial issue, you need to shut your mouth and realize that it's a stupidity issue. I've seen all kinds of people cut in front of me and they all had one thing in common and it wasn't race, it was that they were stupid. These people were all stupid enough to cut in front of people, get caught, and should pay the consequences for it, I say kick them out of the park. Especially for those who do this in a group plain as day.

My wife and a friend of mine were up in the station of the Beast right after the fight had been broken up. Unfortunately they ended up having to wait an extra 20 minutes to get things sorted out and get the ride going again. This is time taken away from people who were at the park trying to have a good time because of a bunch of dumb people that couldn't wait their turn.

~Rob Willi

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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:26 PM
Look out for the hill jacks who are smoking as well. That would be a plus.

One of the biggest problems I see in a lot of queues at KI is that they're contained in a way that makes enforcement difficult. The Beast queue is probably the worse in that respect. What I would do is eliminate the front/back queue at the base of the ramp and make it one, the way Adventure Express is set up so people can get up and down outside of the line and they can put garbage cans there. Then re-do all of the rails in the station since it's huge and unused as it stands now. They really need to adopt the CP SOP and post ride ops at entrance and the platform. People are less inclined to be morons that way.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:28 PM
I would blame the park, at least to a certain extent. They are responsible for their property and their rules.

At SFGAdv, where they actually do have security at times, I did see a fight break out in line at Superman. They actually knocked down a piece of the queue fence. Anyway, security should have been present there. By the time the guard got there, some of the people were already leaving the line.

If it is a crowded day, parks need to staff security at least in the lines for popular attractions.

I wish SFGAdv would enforce their line jumping rule like they have been enforcing their no smoking policy.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:59 PM
I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember being handed a numbered ticket as I entered a ride queue which I then had to hand to the operator on the platform. Seems an easy solution to me...
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Monday, April 30, 2007 5:05 PM
^Ka had that system last year. Only Beetlejuice could get away with line-jumping under this system (see user profile, LOL). Even then, would it REALLY be worth a shrunken head just to skip a line? ;)

edit: I guess the parks HAVE decided that smoking in a non-smoking area is a removable offense (where you'll be thrown out of the park), but that line-jumping is just a cute way for teenagers (and others, duly noted) to avoid long waits.....weird to me, but I obviously don't make the rules...

*** Edited 4/30/2007 9:07:26 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Monday, April 30, 2007 7:15 PM
I called out a kid Disneyland for line jumping. We were in line for space mountain and we noticed the kid working his way through the line and up past up. very low key trying not to draw any attention to himself but everyone noticed. About two minutes later his girlfriend was doing the same thing. I saw that he had reached the front of the line, heading into the building itself, and he was flagging her forward. We had already been discussing with people around us on how someone should do something.

Well I decided to stand up the railing and let everyone know what i thought. "eveyone,, can i have your attention for a minute. these two line jumpers are taking away from your experience and just making the rest of us wait longer.So please, lets everyone just give them a big round of applause."

Needless to say every started cheering and a park employee removed them from line. The kid immediately began shouting profantys and throwing hand gestures. Exclaiming, "Ill see you at the end of the line," I never did see him so i would assume Disney removed him from the park but it just goes to show that these line jumpers are willing to cheat everyone and then fight about it, but whatever. I wish I seen more of this at more parks.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 7:30 PM
The ticket system does not work on ka. THe main reason is because the guards dont check the ticket numbers.

2 weekends ago they were using that system and 2 people line jumped I told the guard and stated check their ticket numbers. He completely ignored me and took their tickets and did nothing about it.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 8:42 PM
^ SFGAdv needs to enforce their line jumping policy like they enforce their non-smoking policy.

We had a bad line jumping experience at Hersheypark last year. Some urban kids literally cut in front of us in line for Tidal Force, and they were giving us attitude when we confronted them, like we did something wrong. When we got to the loading platform, one of the employees was informed, but it didn't seem anything was really done to the offenders. They may have been asked, but I know that they weren't removed from the park.

Parks seem to have failed in enforcing this strictly, and we can't just blame this one on Six Flags.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 8:46 PM
^Its called video cameras (even if they are fake) and signs around to inform you of their presense (ie say cheese, look up in the sky, etc) and that anyone caught smoking/cutting in line can and will be ejected from the park. Granted this system has its flaws (someone has to report it and if real a playback machine would have to be nearby if not in the station) but the mere suggestion of it would help drop the levels of line cutters.
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Monday, April 30, 2007 9:50 PM
Here's a video of a fight at KD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ShdJQAI_o

I'm pretty sure they weren't fighting because of how rough Hypersonic is.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 9:55 PM
For some reason I read that as that being the fight on Beast. As soon as it started playing I was a little lost. :)
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Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM
I agree that parks should kick out line cutters, not this end of the line nonsense. At Dorney they almost always have security watching the lines except when the lines are non existant (which is most of the time). I saw 2 groups kicked out of Dorney last year for line cutting but both times it wasn't a first offense. The first incident a kid cut the line a second time after security sent him to the end of the line and was then kicked out. A second incident was when a group cut the line and they were taken out of line and cursing. Someone said they don't want them cursing in front of their kids and the line cutters told them to shut the **** up. It was that comment that got the group kicked out of the park.
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Monday, April 30, 2007 11:09 PM
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2173466/detail.html

I know nothing about the particulars of this King’s Island story…but here is a link to a news story done on Magic Mountain after they kicked out some line-cutters. I’m not defending or condemning Magic Mountain’s actions alleged in the link. I don’t know who or what to believe. My experience at this park leads me to believe that any actions taken to clean up all forms of thugery would be welcome…but at what cost?

I do think that this story illustrates what amusement park’s are up against should they decide to boot line-cutters and those booted are anything but a white male. Our current sensationalist journalism culture thrives on finding just one person to claim racism…and the park is left on the defensive (much like I probably will be for daring to suggest this factor on this thread).

It is easy for any and all of us to claim that race is NOT a factor…and it certainly should not be. However, any business in the public eye capable of gathering unwanted and unfair (?) media attention certainly need be cognizant that IF they are not following their procedures uniformly and sadly even IF they are…there is significant chance that they will find themselves accused quite publicly of behaviors difficult to defend.

As for my experience with Kings Island…particularly The Beast…line-cutting and fights are not isolated events. I’ve experienced it all in the 70’s (very young), 80’s and 90’s. I once experienced no less than 100 people (it was a special event with Kentucky State in the early-mid 1990’s ) walk into the cue and disregard all rules and common decency. Park employees saw it by the dozens and DID NOTHING! I do not blame them. It was abundantly clear that should anybody call the offenders to task…there was going to be some fighting. I doubt the park had enough security to win that battle. Your choice on that particular day was to tolerate this type of behavior OR leave. The park was handing out free return passes like candy to anybody willing to complain. This is just the most glaring example I can give of MULTIPLE such KI experiences.

The point is that we have a societal issue that is way bigger than an amusement park willing or capable of enforcing rules. In my opinion…I cannot blame the parks…though I really want to. They are damned if they do and damned if the don’t. In some of these situations actively taking action could actually make matters more unsafe. For once…I don’t have the answer! ;)

*** Edited 5/1/2007 3:11:17 AM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

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Monday, April 30, 2007 11:34 PM
White people can be considered "wannabe thugs" too, Rob. Now who's exactily being racial here?

I hate line jumping with a passion. If everyone did it, there would be chaos. Jerks who use threats and violence to scare people into allowing them to do so without objection should be removed from the park (EDIT- at the least).

Parks say that they will enforce this rule but they don't. Just look at how SF and others views the importance of the line jumping issue. It's starting to become a joke because of legal line jumping. Thugs might see that line jumping is like giving themselves a free Q-Bot.

I see it as maybe becoming much more of a problem as more and more parks cut staffing budgets and allow line cutting "privileges" to certain people. Some of the other "certain" people will get fed up and cut anyways.

Now that I think about it, I think I will start cutting everyone too. It's really the best solution, because parks can't seem to enforce their insincere no-line-cutting rules.

EDIT-I didn't see Jeffery R Smith's post or the few above his post before I posted the above...

Jeffery, your post is very insightful. I like the idea a few posts ago about surveillance cameras in the queues. Retail stores do it all the time, and though some stores have a policy of not using the footage to prosecute, it still deters shoplifting. I wonder how effective cameras would be to deter line cutting and smoking? The signs pointing out the cameras could even refer the cameras as being "Security Cameras".

*** Edited 5/1/2007 4:00:23 AM UTC by dexter***

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Monday, April 30, 2007 11:56 PM
The line jumping on Raging Bull at SFGAm is totally out of control. They always end up hopping in the line right next to the photo thing. They probably just got off the darn ride too.

Honestly, how hard is it to either, 1. Build a better fence or 2. Put a 15 year old there?

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 12:54 AM
Having a no line-jumping policy if great... if it is enforced. Without enforcement, it's worthless. It basically comes down to parks placing an emphasis on security and devoting the resources to deal with it. Without the committment on the part of the parks, the problem will not go away.

MOA was having a problem with teenagers on weekend evenings. They made a policy that kids cannot be in the mall after 6pm unless accompanied by an adult. They have security at every major entrance into the mall. We went to the mall on a Saturday evening with the kids. The kids had run up ahead of us and were immediately stopped by security. Of course, we told security we had never seen those kids before and kept on walking. :)

If enough people complain to the parks, and certainly if it affects attendance, it can improve. However the parks need to make security a priority and devote the necessary resources.

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