Fellner estate sues PTC and Holiday World for 2003 accident

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...enthusiasts really put Holiday World on the map...

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Please. That's the stupidest thing I've read here. Holiday World is wildly successful because they treat people right. Enthusiasts have nothing to do with it.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree on that one Jeff. HW does a lot of things very well, but it would be in a very different place today if it were not for enthusiasts. It is not just enthusiasts by any means, but they did help. Without going into specifics, just look at their growth before and after we started checking out their wood.

You can't go into specifics because there are no specifics. The growth of the park has everything to do with the water park and more marketing to Indianapolis.

Enthusiasts still make up .01% of the population.

Enthusiasts make up a lot more than .01% of the word of mouth advertising parks (especially HW) get. I know I would have never heard of them if it were not for enthusiasts, and I have taken other people there that would have never heard of them either. I bet that story is not unique. I would also be willing to bet that Raven was intended as a family coaster and that they might not have even recoginzed it as a top tier world class high thrill ride till it got recognition from enthusiasts. Marketing strategies, awards, and Legend all snowballed from that. HW does a better job than pretty much any park at listening to enthusiast feedback, but it is still valuable feedback that is very tough to get from the other 99.99%. I am not saying HW has done nothing on their own, but I am also not going to brush aside enthusiasts as completely insignificant.

You grossly over-estimate the distance that Holiday World draws from, and therefore how important it is that the coasters are recognized by enthusiasts.

Heil Putz!

Remember folks, he's never wrong!

Well thought out response.

C'mon, Jeff, you know it's not a truly controversial thread until you get called/compared to a nazi. ;)

Unfortunatly, the tragic mistake of one "enthusiast" is going to have a much bigger impact than any word of mouth that the rest of the enthusiast community generates.

It's not tough to get feedback from the other 99.99%. All you have to do is stand at the ride exit and look at the reactions of people getting off. When everybody gets off smiling, you know you did something right.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Yeah, but knowing what you did right is more tricky. PKI thought they had it figured out with the smiles coming off Beast, and look what they went and did. If only they went to enthusiasts like HW did with Legend.

In Mr. Fellner's defense, I have been to Holiday World and ridden the raven and the crew AT THE TIME did not seem to care a whole lot to make sure that my restraint was down all the way in a safe position. I'm sure things are much different now. I also know that on most wooden coasters today, the Raven included, restraints can be down far enough to prevent someone from even being able to climb out of the seats.

However, I am appauled to hear that he waited two years to sue Holiday World, and I do great sympathize the park for this because I'm sure they have been trying to put this nasty incident behind them. And the fact that he is suing them out of the blue like this does make one wonder if he is just doing it for the money, which unfortunately, many people are sick and twisted enough that they would do such a thing.

As far as the courts are concerned, I think this case has the potential to go either way. Sure it looks as though he has no case due to the amount of witnesses saying she stood up, however, in this day and age, amusement park safety run by ride operators is a huge issue.

Still, I have to pull for Holiday World to win this one, because I love their park, and a $75,000 fine could cause serious damages to a park of their size. I'd hate to see that happen. And again, they've been trying to put this behind them, and it takes a greedy little jerk like Mr. Fellner to keep them from being able to do that.

I don't think Mr Felner is doing anything ANY parent wouldn't do. The man lost a daughter, if we don't agree with his actions, lets keep in mind that he has suffered a terrible loss. How many of you have children? What would you do if a similar situation happened to you?While I agree, the facts that have come out of the investigation seem to indicate NO FAULT by Holiday World and they do not deserve to be put through this, my anger is directed to the Fiance of Ms. Felnar who was riding with her and had the unique oppurtunity to say what happened. The fact that he would not cooperate with investigators angers me as he could have put the matter to rest by simply being honest. The fact that he didn't copperate makes me think he is looking out for himself. That is where my anger and dissapointment are directed. Not to a man who lost his daughter.

edit - fix typo's
*** This post was edited by Coaster Cynic 5/7/2005 5:05:55 PM ***

Why is McDonald's always brought up? This is totally different. If you were to talk about McDonalds and relate it to this, that would be like saying PTC built their trains with faux seat belts.

http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbusters-free/MB_mcdonalds.htm

Someone said, "But to say that "she deserved it", no one EVER deserves to pay the ultimate price for stupidity (and we've ALL done stupid things)."Actions have consequences. When a person of average intelligence makes choices that have pretty clear potential outcomes, it should be no surprise when those outcomes occur. That's just how life works. Do I deserve to feel pain if I hit my thumb with a hammer, on purpose?

A few months ago, a teen aged boy died due to head injuries sustained while skateboarding. This was certainly a tragedy, and I cannot imagine the pain and suffering the family went through. However, I could not have respected them more than after the father made a comment to the local paper where he said that no, he had no plans to sue the city, the skateboard manufacturer, etc. as he had been asked. He explained that he and his wife had always bought their child the proper safety equipment, trained him in its use, and required that he wear it at all times. The boy made a choice, a choice that had consequences and that was that -- no one was responsible for the results of the accident other than the boy who made the decision to not wear his helmet and to continue to engage in risky behavior.

Imagine that. Actually teaching and exhibiting the concept of personal responsibility. Something so few have any understanding of.
*** This post was edited by lavachickie 6/10/2005 12:20:21 AM ***