Fellner estate sues PTC and Holiday World for 2003 accident

Wow, now THAT'S over the line!

Take notes, Jeffrey R Smith....

Does anybody know the last time an amusement company took a case like this to trial?

The lawsuits will not stop until the amusement industry takes a stand. I truly hope that Holiday World does not settle. Unfortunately, they will have to make tough and accurate statements about subsets of enthusiasts all over again if the suit goes to trial. I hope Holiday World understands that enthusiasts will always support them.

Although there have been incidents where parks or ride companies have made oversights, but not to the full extent of the charges (Perilous Plunge, Cajun Cliffhanger, Superman: Ride of Steel); parks must stand up to suits over incidents clearly involving rider misbehavior.

The real irony here is that legally Holiday World probably has a legal case against the Fellner estate for the economic damage caused to the park by Tamar Fellner's gross misconduct. But, if they were to file a suit for these damages, they would look like a heavy.

"Those of you directing hate toward the attorneys and the legal system are directing it toward the wrong place."

The fact that Holiday World will have to pay an attorney to answer this complaint is by beef with the system. They should not have to pay one penny nor spend one ounce of energy defending baseless charges. When a case has absolutely no legal basis, nor is their any evidence or witness statements to collaborate the worthless charges made in the complaint, then the case is frivolous in my book. Our system sucks when dealing with these situations. There needs to be some sort of review process that throws these baseless complaints out AND fines the perpetrators.

"If you are ever wronged, or even think you've been wronged, you'll be thankful that you have the right to settle the dispute in a court of law. If you didn't have that right, your neighbor, corporations, etc., could cheat or cause you some kind of harm you without consequence."

I agree with this 100%! In this case we are not talking frivilous... I've used the system fairly twice myself. It (the system) works great when complaints are reasonable and justified.

"The issue of a suit being filed is not itself a problem. An outcome that favors the plaintiff would be a problem."

Holiday World should not have to sweat until an outcome in a better system that weeds out frivilous suits.

I think EVERYBODY agrees (if you think about it) that those who participate in "frivilous" suits should be punished. This does not happen in the current system.

Guess I'm a little late in asking that *we* act according to the same high standards as they set at the park, that night and every night....

A woman DIED, there is no more serious consequence than that. I in NO way shape or form condone ANYTHING that Tamar did that night. In fact, I was in the station and rode just a few trains before her, after the line was closed to the General Public. But to say that "she deserved it", no one EVER deserves to pay the ultimate price for stupidity (and we've ALL done stupid things).

The *straps* referenced above, to the best of my recollection, were in fact BANNED from being used at the park as soon as management became aware of their use. HW had never expressed anything REMOTELY resembling a disregard for guest safety, and to suggest otherwise is completely ludicrous, IMO. I sure hope that when the legal dust settles, that their prior safety record, the care and maintenance of their rides, the utmost in care and hospitality shown to their guests, that THOSE are the facts that come to light in the end...probably HW's insurance carrier will want to settle because that's just the way things usually work, but it IS important that HW have *their day in court* as well.

Paula, Will, all of you have shown an immense amount of class throughout, not that anything else could ever have been expected. I am SO sorry you all had to go through this once, and then ALL of the unnecessary speculation and fault-finding. PLEASE understand that the irresponsible few ARE in fact a "vocal minority" and that the vast majority of the people are respectful to both you and to this woman's family.

I wish this thread had never come about, but it was a matter of time I suppose. Hopefully this can be resolved fairly quickly, the good people in Santa Claus deserve some time to heal their wounds. In the meantime, can we try to be respectful....thanks!

Somebody please tell me a story of an unfrivilous lawsuit. I'm starting to think they don't exist anymore...

Gruelurks: Don't be a moron. Someone died. No one, and no family, every deserves that. Show a little respect.

Smith: You aren't a lawyer or a judge, and you're not qualified to decide what is "baseless." There is a review process... it's called a trial.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the suit is right. I mean, how do you allege that PTC trains aren't designed right? They've safely given hundreds of millions of rides with that restraint design.

The suit says that HW is neglegent in: failing to properly test, inspect, and maintain the safety restraints within the car of The Raven; failing to provide proper and adequate warnings regarding use of the The Raven; and failing to comply with all local, state, and/or federal regulations, ordinances, rules and/or statutes applicable to the operation of an amusement park ride such as The Raven.Doesn't that directly contradict what the reports by state inspectors said? In fact, the ride was properly maintained, inspected and tested, there is proper and adequate warnings regarding riding the coaster, and, if Holiday World didn't comply with state, local, and federal laws, they would be closed down!

Paula, please forgive me if you didn't want this reposted,

These are the words of the "negligent defendant". A family, in all senses that felt their hearts ripped apart on May 31, 2003:

"I can't expect any of you to know what we went through this summer.
That awful, awful night. Telling Will. Telling Mrs. Koch. Saying
goodbye to the SRMers. Hugs from so many as they filed past me.
Listening to Will talk to her father on the phone. Handling the first
calls from the media. Worrying about our employees. Tears. Prayers.
Low-flying news helicopters. Inspectors. Police. The coroner.

Crisis counseling. Ministers. Emails from well-wishers. Hate mail.
Flags at half staff. Closed for the day. Satellite trucks everywhere.

Getting up after two hours of sleep and vomiting. Filled with dread
about what the new day will bring. Knowing the truth, but the truth
doesn't change reality. That beautiful young woman who made a mistake
is gone forever.

I haven't trusted myself to say this before...but the cruel names that
have been posted here regarding the ACE member who died that night
have cut me to the core. She has a name. It's Tamar Fellner. She's not
here to defend herself. I pray that she rests in peace. And that her
parents find peace. And I pray they don't read some of what has been
posted here.

At first, Will said we shouldn't talk about whether to have future
events. It was too soon and he didn't want to make a hasty decision.
We should wait till the season slowed down. A few weeks ago, we
started talking about it after a directors meeting. The pained look on
his face convinced me he'd made the right decision even before the
words came out of his mouth.

"I just can't see doing it. I can't see putting our employees through
it." "

That speaks for itself. Bless the Holiday World family.

I'll be honest here! When Hershey added seatbelts to the Comet i'd unfasten them because I have ridden it so many times without them. I was angry that they'd add seatbelts to a coaster that ran without an accident for years without a seatbelt.

Then I went to dorney park, and did the same on Thunderhawk. That used to run without seatbelts too. My lapbar came up at the top of the 2nd hill, and I almost fell out. At the top of the 2nd hill there is a good pop of air, and I flew forward. I was lucky that I was able to hook my arm into the lapbar. The whole train was silent.

Now when I ride any coaster that has a seatbelt I always make sure that it tug enough to act as a secondary restraint. It only takes one mistake to end your life.

Rider negligence isn't a reason to sue a park or train manufacturer, but she did die on a coaster that intended to bring joy to peoples lives. I feel for her family, and loved ones that she left behind. It was a mistake that took her life. Holiday World nor PTC is responsible for that.

These baseless lawsuits would be ok if the bloodsucking/ambulance chasing lawyers had to post a bond that would cover the costs of the opposing side that would be paid out if they lost, but sadly thats not the case. So companies have to spend billions of dollars each year defending themselves from baseless lawsuits and some times giving out some moey because that is cheaper than taking a case to court and risking a jury of people who are idiots or anti-business giving out big rewards.

And the lawyers have to be the ones are blamed because if they had any type of morality they would knowingly/intentionally file baseless complaints in the pursuit of not justice but ill-gotten money!!!!!!!!!*** This post was edited by Bob O 5/4/2005 7:18:04 PM ***

I just want to clear up what I said, after billy-gator's post:

I don't feel she 'deserved' to die, I just feel that she brought that upon herself. I still hate that it happened, but I'm more angered that it happened than remorseful. People do stupid things and they pay dearly for their actions. In this case, Tamar's price was her death.

To qoute Charles Darwin "The fittest will survive," It is pretty obvious that Tamar was not fit. Did she deserve to die, not technically but when you do something that stupid, knowing very well the risks and still decide to do it, the line of deserving gets blurred......

Jeff you are not a lawyer or judge, so don’t go saying, “an outcome that favors the plaintiff would be a problem.” Come on… You know this case is wrong on so many levels. I’m not saying the system needs a complete overhaul, but it is naïve to think this system is perfect and fair. There are frivolous suit reform ides out there that make a lot of sense. I’m sure that we will start seeing tort reform on a more frequent basis due to stuff like this. I agree with much of what you have to say, but I cannot agree that it is fair that Holiday World wait until the end of a long and expensive process before being declared innocent.

The sad part about this is that Holiday World has already lost. They will have to spend time and money to defend this crap. Their insurance may foot the bill, but just the act of being named in a lawsuit is enough to raise premiums in many cases.

**The following is a personal frivolous lawsuit experience that shows how defendants like Holiday World can get quite screwed EVEN if they win…ignore if not interested**

I’m a physical therapist. A few years ago a plaintiff I never met or treated named me in a lawsuit. I repeat…I never even saw this plaintiff. Apparently this plaintiff sued a therapy clinic for the standard pain and suffering. I happened to do per diem work for this clinic, but never worked inside the clinic where this patient/plaintiff was treated. The plaintiff’s lawyer found out that I (and a few other therapists) had liability insurance so he named us in the suit as potential sources of big money.

To make a long and difficult story short…I ended up having to hire my own personal lawyer just to get my name removed from this suit. It was not cheap.

But this is not the end of the story…The next October when my annual liability premium came due; I was shocked to find that my premium had more than doubled. The reason for the increased rate was that I was NAMED in a complaint. Note that I did not say convicted or found guilty. I was merely NAMED. Please remember that I never even met this plaintiff. The case was eventually dropped and the plaintiff received nothing. But I was stuck with increased insurance premiums and lawyer bills. This plaintiff was able to walk away without so much as a fine.

The result of this story is that when parents come to me and want their children seen for gross motor delays, I have to charge increased rates to cover my increased premiums. This is on top of the lengthy and multiple redundancy of paperwork I already perform due to CYA factors (to prevent lawsuits)…

So pardon me if I so not think the system is always fair. I take offense to those that say otherwise. There are things that can be changed and darn well should be changed.

P.S. Jeff---I’m thinking of suing you and CB for the undue emotional stress your sharp tongue has caused me. Furthermore your use of bright yellow coloring seems to have triggered a seizure response, which is causing me further pain and suffering. I’ll let you go through the system defending charges like this and see how wonderful you think it is AFTER that. I just need one lawyer to take my case... :-)

UBRhino,

Could this thread help? Gads, have you read it? It's despicable. What we can all do right now to help HW is to shut our stinkin cakeholes and say a prayer for the Kochs and everyone around them.

A little harsh perhaps? Yes.

Just tired of all the crap lawsuits people file over the actions of a loved one who decided to play dumb.

Flame away. I've had my close calls on a few rides, and count myself lucky as well as stupid for doing it. If someone filed a lawsuit over my death due to my stupidity, I would come back to haunt them.

Makes me believe it tort reform even more now.

Man. I am SO sorry to see all of this dredged up again. I truely had hoped that all of it had been put behind us. Paula, if you are reading this my thoughts and wishes go out to you and the rest of Holiday World.

I have so many personal thoughts on this...it makes me angry. It should NOT have happened.

I am willing to donate money to a defense fund for HW, and I think others should do the same. To me, one tragedy doesn't deserve another, and HW paying a dime in this case would be another tragedy to me.

Jeff, if you are interested in pursuing a collection for HW, I'm all for it, and I'll cut you a check right now!*** This post was edited by SVLFever 5/4/2005 2:16:28 AM ***

Im with Jim Fisher.

Bout time for HW to counter sue for the potentially millions in lost revenue, bad spotlight and emotional distress due to the riders misconduct.

It's already proven she couldn't follow instructions, Attendees were supposed to be in the picnic grove at the time the incident happened.

Chuck, not trying to be mean, just still sick from this incident.