Epic Universe expected to have $2 billion economic impact in first year

TheMillenniumRider:

In the past I have speculated, probably incorrectly, that parks intentionally lack care for their dispatch times as an accelerant for line skipping sales. Why would I buy x product to skip the line, if the line move quickly?

Have you met our friend Travis?

Fun:

The introduction of pay-to-cut schemes has been a necessary evil because not much else has worked to fight off cost inflation.

So it's not only not killed the parks, but it's currently saving their asses?

That'd make the naysayers circa 2005 double morons.

Demand (as measured by real pricing power for admission) for regional parks has been on a downward trend for the last 20 years.

Well, that's the general Walmarting of everything...in part, at least. No one expects the pay too much for very much anymore. It seem the parks' business model has been to get them in the door for next to nothing and then...well, people gotta eat. Or Maverick.

Honestly, I'd love to see the price of admission at places like theme parks jump to where they should be and things like FOL and VIP become more exclusive and not just selling phrases for different levels of access.

But then we'd be complaining that (Insert Park Here) hates poor people.

I guess I'd rather discriminate at the door.

*shrug*

(and that's a 15-year old Gonchback up there!)

Where "should" the price of admission be, though? In 1972 Kings Island charged $6 for admission, which with inflation is $45.90 today. Online daily tickets to KI start at $45. I think the value we enthusiasts assign to a day at an amusement park is much greater than that by a typical guest, and since parks understandably cater to the typical guest to make money, their pricing reflects that.

Lord Gonchar:

So it's not only not killed the parks, but it's currently saving their asses?

If only Geauga Lake had Fastlane in 2007 to skip the non-existent lines, it would still be open today.

Tyler, I think we can all agree that KI today is a far better park with much more attractions then opening day. It now has a waterpark and 10+ coasters that weren’t there at opening. I don’t want to count but I bet they have more flat rides too. Most parks should be charging $100 for admission, $10 an hour (10 hour day) seems very fair. Even more of a deal when opened for 12 hours.

Lord Gonchar:

So it's not only not killed the parks, but it's currently saving their asses?

Correct. There is no return on investment on building a coaster at Cedar Point anymore - unless there is Fastlane.

TylerWS:

Where "should" the price of admission be, though?

I dunno. But look at how much these guys are paying for their all-inclusive passes.

So, closer to that.

What's standard admission + FOL access at any given park?

The gate should probably be a lot nearer to that number in general.

They closed it to force people to buy Fastlane at Cedar Point.

Lord Gonchar:

Have you met our friend Travis?

It's killing me to keep quite here.

I echo everything Tommytheduck has said. I also accept the analysis of his posts on this topic as how I feel about it as well.

It's arguably not something one can prove, and it does sound conspiratorial, but If a park can do anything to sell more line-cutter passes, they will. Like a lot of CoasterBuzzers like to point out, they're not a charity. They are in it to make as much money as possible. If slow operations sell more line-cutter passes, some shorter-sighted park managers might decide to purposely not focus on making their ride hosts hustle. It's very possible.

First in line, first to ride has always been the unspoken social rule. Line cutting is not allowed because it offers a poor experience for others waiting in line. But if you want to cut without the threat of getting ejected from the park without a refund, pay the park for the privilege to allow you to break that rule. It's a big middle finger to all the other park guests.

Is line cutting allowed, or isn't it? I don't want others to cut in front of me, especially when it's busy, so...

That's the old-school Travis. The new Travis still feels the same way, but when the park is busy, and I have an extra hundred bucks in my bank account, I can't help myself. I buy it. I feel like an ass prancing to the front of the line. It almost makes me sick.

If cheap season passes are the result of fastlane, I'd rather see season passes be more expensive and no fastlane. Lines would be shorter with less people in the park. No one would be cutting without getting thrown out. Order instead of chaos. Everything would be golden.

I'm in camp keep it simple.

I pay more so that I can use more of the park's resources. I do that because riding is one of my favorite hobbies.

"Thoosies" buying FOL is nothing unusual. Consider the avid golfer who buys memberships to exclusive clubs/courses, or the frequent traveler who only books first class, or the concert lover who has "ins" for the best tickets or pays scalper prices. Gacha gamers. Throwing money at your hobby is pretty standard.

If I'm spending $5K to spend a week in Orlando, another $150 to ensure the best possible experience at a major park is a rounding error. Younger me wouldn't have seen it that way, but older me sure as hell does.

The worst is when you buy a fast pass and you get on several rides where you didn’t need it. So basically you paid an extra Benjamin or two for just a couple of rides.

I’m just going to use Cedar Point and Kings Island here because me they are the CF parks I have the most experience with.

If they wanted to slow down operations to sell more Fast Lanes they could just staff less people on the platform, not staff the queue entrance, etc. But Magnum still has 4 people checking belts and they are hustling. It’s the other “safety” procedures that are slowing them down.

But what if those "safety" procedures that are slowing them down, were created to sell more fastlanes???

metallik:

Throwing money at your hobby is pretty standard.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the FOL discussion. It really shouldn't be more complicated than that. Parks are not governments with constitutions dictating fairness and equality for all. It's a friggin' leisure expense.

If it's true that parks disincentivize efficient ops to sell more passes, that's shady and not a great business model, but I'm skeptical of the notion that it's a deliberate practice.

Man, if the parks were smart, they'd just close rides altogether and really reduce capacity.

"Sorry folks, only one coaster open today. Line will be 8 hours...or you can buy this Fastpass! Mwhahahaha!"

You guys are literally dumbasses.

Dude... take it easy.

Making the experience intentionally worse when you're in the hospitality business is probably not a thing. I'm sure it can be a byproduct of doing other things in a suboptimal way, but not the intent.

Lord Gonchar:

"Sorry folks, only one coaster open today. Line will be 8 hours...or you can buy this Fastpass! Mwhahahaha!"

But enough about Busch Gardens Tampa.

Nah, you guys are being WAY too diplomatic at this point.

As I've said before, nobody is twirling their mustache and saying "moo-hoo-hahaha, let's make the lines longer." That guy would get laughed out of the room pretty much anywhere.

And, there's no question that the introduction of FOL passes creates perverse incentives for parks. The greater the benefit - i.e., the more time saved NOT standing in line - the more value the pass has, and thus the more the park can charge for it. This seems pretty hard to deny to me.

Do they consciously act on it? Prolly not. Does reducing wait times become a less urgent problem for the park when an alternative is offered? Absolutely yes.