Epic Universe expected to have $2 billion economic impact in first year

^ It all depends on how many trips you make in a season. We typically go 15-20 times a year, and we usually eat 2 meals in the park each trip (except for Halloweekends/Winterfest). At the meal price of $21 - 15% pass discount, we usually have the dining plan paid for by end of June (8 meals X $18 = $144). Then we eat free the rest of the year.

Any theme park trip is an overnight trip, thus I’m there open to close. I get my two meals. Even if I just go for 10 days, $14.50 is extremely reasonable.

Jeff:

That's nuts with all of the add-ons, for a season that's barely half of a year. Hopefully you eat your weight in food and get a lot of laps in.

Most of that cost is the allpark fastlane, but my god that thing is like crack. Can't go without anymore, and just about guarantees any day will be a good day for us at the park as we really like riding rides. This past Friday was crazy busy, like https://www.reddit.com/r/Ki...eview_day/ busy, but I still got 8 rides in without much fuss and had a great time.

Last year we went around 65 times so the math is pretty decent.

I got my Kings Dominion "home park" pass with all parks, season dining and drinks plus for about 400 last August. I'm 4 park visits in so far this year all via driving so not much travel costs probably $400 additional. I will make money back faster when I get my Great Adventure/Dorney trips when I am on call so I can't travel. Also I have family that is asking about the parks so I will have trips with them that will add to my days at the parks.

Park Visits this year: Great Adventure (opening day), Kings Dominion 2 days. Six Flags America 1 day which was really like 2 hours and done and I should have headed to Great Adventure later that day as I heard lines were minimal.

There was literally a time when users on here argued that FOL systems would put parks out of business. Those people were morons.

Here we are 20 years later and, no.

No, it hasn't.

It has people so conditioned to the process that we talk about not visiting parks without it in our posts paying money closing in on Disney levels.

My cockles are warm.

Yup. And I was one of those. https://coasterbuzz.com/For...t-fastlane

I've completely changed my tune however. Reading this again I can see where my stance has changed, but how a few of my points were valid. (spoiled brat 10 year old.)

But here's the main reason, and I'll let Eminem take this one: "I just don't give a ..."

Edit, I wrote a lot more, but then erased it as it was simply re-hashing old ideas. (Isn't this thread supposed to be about Universal? Haha)

The TLDR is just a repeat of what I said above, IJDGAF anymore.

Tommytheduck:

IJDGAF anymore.

Is this outcome the actions of moral or cultural relativism at work?

Tommytheduck:
(Isn't this thread supposed to be about Universal?

Coasterbuzz Drift my friend, soon we will be arguing about the semantics of some obscure topic and how it fits on a slider.

Lord Gonchar:
It has people so conditioned to the process that we talk about not visiting parks without it in our posts paying money closing in on Disney levels.

Ah, the ultimate goal of all en****tification, make people pay more for less, or pay for what was once free. So what is next, everyone pays for line skip, so no one has line skip, so if you don't pay for line skip you essentially don't get to ride. Or we can do RCT model and charge for the gate, and then charge for the rides. Maybe instead we can introduce the new tier of line skip, which allows you to skip the line skippers. That should put the park out of business right? At minimum the PE guys will be having wet dreams over it.

Lord Gonchar:
My cockles are warm.

Yes, but are they moist?

I didn't necessarily like paid queueing, but I remember using it as early as maybe 2010. The reason I'm more indifferent now is probably because I make more money than I did then. I wouldn't say that I like it, it's just something that I roll with. I'd happily take back free Fastpass at Disney if it were a thing.

It is interesting the differences in what people value.

I hear: "You're actually paying $1400 for a CF park that's only open half the year??"

I say: "You're actually paying $800 for a Disney pass without getting any unrestricted FOL access??"

(BTW, does that 800 get you *any* FOL access?)

Meanwhile, we're both perfectly happy with our purchases...

TheMillenniumRider:

Is this outcome the actions of moral or cultural relativism at work?

I don't quite understand what you're asking me here, or if you're being insulting, even after I googled it. Earlier I censored myself after writing it all out, but here goes, again:

1) I don't want to wait in a long line for something I've ridden 200x.

2) I don't want to wait in a long line for something I'm riding for the first time.

3) But I still want to do this as a hobby.

4) I want to get in, have my fun, get out in a few hours.

5) "I'm getting too old for this..."

6) I hate most people and don't want to be stuck in groups of them. (Yes, I know, wrong hobby then.) (See also "I'm getting to old for this...")

All that being said, I still believe that paying extra to cut the line makes the park experience worse for the non FL guest. That belief hasn't changed and you'll never convince me otherwise. But as I said, I just don't care any more. People mostly suck, and they suck the most at theme parks and airports, which covers my hobby and my job. Therefore I'll gladly pay to bypass as many of them as I can. To be clear, I consider myself a good person. I believe that I'm polite, courteous, truthful, and always try to do the right thing, even when it's not beneficial to me. I understand the last paragraph doesn't come across that way, but how much more of my rambling do you really want to read? This is way too much already. Good night.

The experience is indeed worse for the non-FL guest, but also consider our splurging on fast lanes is one of the big reasons CF parks have been able to keep the gold pass close to $100 for the past 20 years or so. Non-FL get a slightly inferior product but they pay less. I agree on the FU money.. other folks spend their FU money on clothes or phones; I blow mine on line skipping.

I have the ability to pay for these things now too and it’s more of do I think this is worth it thing, and park specific. As I said earlier I found the Cedar Fair FL SP worth it this year. I always, and I do mean always, stay at Universals deluxe resorts to get their Express Pass; I’m waiting for reports on Epic to come in (and if premier APs get their Express benefit in the afternoon) but expect I’ll likely buy that one. Disneyland I always buy the Multi use Lightning. I do not buy it at WDW, I don’t get enough squeeze out of that one with how I tour those parks. Rope drop, EMHs, and the holiday parties provide me enough time to ride the headliners. Similarly, just based on when I go, I rarely need it at SDC or Dollywood, since I’m watching a lot of shows. I don’t generally get them at Sea World for the same reason.

Tommytheduck:

I don't quite understand what you're asking me here, or if you're being insulting, even after I googled it.

I read this line and the scene from 40 year old virgin came to the forefront of my mind. "Well, 'aight, check this out, dawg. First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect. Watch your mouth and help me with the sale." Anyways, on with the actual meat of the post, since your original post said basically nothing other then I used to care but now I don't but in more colorful terminology, I didn't have much to work with. But since you have given more clarity...

Tommytheduck:
I still believe that paying extra to cut the line makes the park experience worse for the non FL guest.

It does, 100%, I'll throw out the word zero sum game, line skipping is just that, your riding ahead of the standby line takes capacity for the standby guests down by one person, which divided among the people in line is a rounding error. Until you add a whole bunch more to the line skipping equation, now it has a meaningful impact on standby capacity.

Tommytheduck:

I consider myself a good person. I believe that I'm polite, courteous, truthful, and always try to do the right thing, even when it's not beneficial to me.

So here we see that you claim to be a good person, so this statement shows that using line skipping is causing you some form of cognitive dissonance.

Tommytheduck:
I just don't care any more. People mostly suck, and they suck the most at theme parks and airports, ... Therefore I'll gladly pay to bypass as many of them as I can.

So you have acknowledged that line skipping makes others experience worse above, you also say that you are a good person, and that normally you do the right thing, and possibly care about others? Finally, you say that people suck. Now for the relativism piece, I'm going to fill in the one gap, and I presume it is a correct statement. I am a good person and care about others, but I'm using the line skipping because people suck and would happily skip me in line, so I don't care anymore and will just skip them because they would do it to me if given the opportunity. There is the cultural or moral relativism at work. I do things because others do those things.

Now of course, this whole thing falls apart if you aren't being truthful about you claim of being a good person, if you are a jerk, then there is no relativism, because you never cared in the first place, and your values aren't shifting due to behavior by others.

We could also dissect your post and look at the intersection of money and values, and how money has shifted those values and contributed to an I don't care attitude. Which is in full swing in this country right now, and amplified even more by the volume of the wealth amassed. Which gives credence to the claims that billionaires shouldn't exist. But that is another tangent to derail another forum topic for another day.

There. Whew. How's that for a granular nitpicked response.

Holy overanalysis (I know, it's CoasterBuzz). Is it possible one can be a good person and care about people despite the fact that people can suck, thus resulting in one becoming somewhat jaded enough to make a decision that might benefit themselves over the other sucky people they otherwise care about?

That was a little extreme even by CoasterBuzz standards.

Or is a business offering a service and people buying it?

Really. Not harder than that.

What can I say? I guess you're mostly right.

I look at it as people suck because in the stand by queue we see many times people walking up through the line saying excuse me my _____ is up there and then come to find out nope it was just a way to cut the line. I'd rather on a busy day plunk down some extra money and not have to deal with that BS.

Also I am not a person who could say something and if things get physical know that I won't end up at first aid. So again I'll speak with my money before dealing with the other money outlay if I felt the need to speak up.

Lord Gonchar:

There was literally a time when users on here argued that FOL systems would put parks out of business. Those people were morons.

Here we are 20 years later and, no.

No, it hasn't.

You are correct it hasn't, but it hasn't made the average guests' visit better. Demand (as measured by real pricing power for admission) for regional parks has been on a downward trend for the last 20 years. The introduction of pay-to-cut schemes has been a necessary evil because not much else has worked to fight off cost inflation.

Jeff:

That was a little extreme even by CoasterBuzz standards.

We have standards???

Tommytheduck:
What can I say? I guess you're mostly right.

Damn, I feel like Gonch now, also forgot to mention in my lengthy over analysis, no insults or ill will intended. Just pointless dissection.

dragonoffrost:
I'd rather on a busy day plunk down some extra money and not have to deal with that BS.

Sweet! Conspiracy time. In the past I have speculated, probably incorrectly, that parks intentionally lack care for their dispatch times as an accelerant for line skipping sales. Why would I buy x product to skip the line, if the line move quickly? So, to add to my conspiracies, I'm tired of line cutting, so let me buy the product. Do parks pretend to enforce line cutting, but really don't put much effort in because it spurs sales? I cannot say for sure that this is happening, but it wouldn't surprise me if some variation of one of the above was mentioned in a boardroom.

Fun:
The introduction of pay-to-cut schemes has been a necessary evil because not much else has worked to fight off cost inflation.

Aye ya...... Just raise the gate price. Give actual good food options, give a decent clean room, throw some cool artwork up, charge appropriately. Hospitality really isn't hard. Last time I checked it didn't say NASA on the side of the hotel or the front gate to the park.