El Toro ties The Voyage

Usually when a sign out front says 'Under New Management', it doesn't matter to people because they don't really know what all is/was going on to warrant new management. You know that we're 2 administrations past what made SFI so terrible. You have the information, and if you continue to ignore it and compare what used to be to what is now, that has nothing to do with customer service, because the current management hasn't serviced you :).

Lord Gonchar said:

If you sort through the Trip Reports from the past 3 seasons - they're overwhelmingly positive.

Perhaps that's because those of us who visit the park several times a season (because it's convenient) don't bother writing a TR unless we have a good day there. ;)

Hmmm. Trip report self-selection bias. Now that's an interesting new wrinkle.

If there were some bias, I would suspect an opposite bias. People tend to want to bitch and moan.

Plus, I have to go with the real world experience..and SF parks are so far beyond where the were before Red Zone came in that it's crazy.

I still insist a day at a SF park now compares favorably to a day at a CF park. They're more alike then not.

Besides, Matt finally went to GADv with me, and had a nice time, so nya ;).

LK.

Just admit that SF left a bad taste in your mouth and you refuse to try the new mouthwash.

Every chance you get, you post your dislike for the chain. Whether it's blunt and to the point or you slide it in somewhere in a post.

Ever heard of second chances? Give it a try. :)

Lord Gonchar said:
If there were some bias, I would suspect an opposite bias. People tend to want to bitch and moan.

Exactly, before 2006, people couldn't wait to get on a coaster forum and discuss their displeasure with (enter SF park here).

I agree with Gonch, CF parks and SF parks have more in common today then they did 10 years ago. I think SF parks are actually starting to gain the upper hand a little.

Then again, I said that I would never get married again, and I did. And I am on the same downhill slide to the gloryhole of divorce court yet again.

I write a TR for almost every park trip, both good and bad. In 2008 - 2010 I have been to Great Adventure 44 times and I can only think of 5 bad trips to the park. Three of those were because of the park being very crowded, two of them were the park being crowded and problems with employees. That's not a bad average although I do avoid the park during peak times which is usually when the problems are with crowds and long lines. I just hope with all the cutbacks the park has had since the new management took over, I continue to have a high percentage of good trips to the park.

I had a pretty good day at Great Adventure in August, but I'm not sure it's a park I'd rush to get back to. It ended up being a really expensive day since a gold flash pass was required in order to do every coaster that day. The amount of money I spent that day is probably what would keep me from going back soon unless I was somehow able to get there during the slow part of the season when I didn't need a flash pass. It was a good park, but not worth the roughly $150 I spent on just myself (discounted online ticket + flash pass + 2 meals).

Overall though, operations were really good except for 2-3 coasters that were absolutely terrible due to poor flash pass integration. The food selection was good and the staff was all pretty friendly. I didn't like that I had to wait 30 minutes to get into the park due to the ridiculous metal detectors.

El Toro was really great though. Not Voyage great, but it's definitely my #2. It could be better if the restraints didn't hurt so bad.

The last time I had a bad visit to a Six Flags park was in 2005...the year Red Zone took over. And that visit was in March, quite a few months before they ousted Burke & Co.

Since 2005 I've been to SFA, SFoG, SFGAdv all at least twice. I've been to St Louis and New England this year. In the last 5 years, the only issues (Besides the $15 parking that I still detest) that I've had were some subpar operations at New England Labor Day Weekend.

Nothing major, the park is so nice, clean, and well kept that it lessened the subpar ops. But in 5 years I've only had 1 subpar experience out of 8 visits to Six Flags, and half of those 8 visits were to parks that used to be notorious for terrible operations and dirty parks.

Before 2005 I'd been to Great America, SFA, SFFM, and Kentucky Kingdom, and really didn't have the best visits at any of those, so I'd say definitely that the company has gotten so much better than what it was. It's practically a different company all together now.

Non-enthusiasts that got burned and have a negative opinion not knowing all of the facts is one thing, but people complaining about things that happened half a decade ago seem a little ridiculous.

The first time I went to SFGAdv was back in '97 or so, and I did have a terrible experience. It was crowded and the service was poor to the point of rudeness. I definitely had a poor taste in my mouth after that, and honestly didn't plan on returning. But, after seeing El Toro built, and having a trusted friend give a stellar review of his trip there, I decided to give it another shot. I went last June, and had one of the best park experiences of my life. No hyperbole. The crowds were still fairly large, but the service was some of the best I'd received, and I ended up changing my tune about the park quickly. I really would recommend anyone who has had bad past experiences to give it a second chance, because its really improved.

This happens everywhere, not just with parks or coasters. People get one bad waitress at (insert name of chain restaurant) and they announce they'll never go there again in any city. People refuse to buy a Ford because somebody they know is related to someone whose neighbor bought a lemon. I know of ex-Catholics who left the church because they didn't like their parish priest, even though he's been dead for 15 years now.

It may not be totally rational, but people have their reasons for supporting or not supporting certain businesses. It's also totally their choice whether they do or not. There's no point in trying to convince someone who doesn't or won't go to a Six Flags park that they're wrong any more than them trying to convincing you that you're wrong because you do like those parks. It's just human nature.

I generally follow the three strikes rule. If I receive extremely bad service at an establishment three times within a reasonable period of time, I can make an assumption that this is the probable baseline for the place, and I'll never go back. It's been 15 years since my wife and I have visited some places.

My visits to SFGAdv 7 - 10 years ago were absolutely dreadful.

My one last year was really great besides a handful of hickups, and my one visit this year was truly, absolutely, remarkably phenomenal. Besides one really weird negative experience at Johnny Rockets my visit to SFGAdv was as good as any other corporate regional I've visited in the past 5 years or so. The park is by no means perfect, and I guess there's the chance I just caught it on a good day, but operations were 100% outstanding. And anyone who knows my posting history will know that I've been a vocal detractor of crappy corporate parks since the dawn of whining on the internets.

Lord Gonchar said:
If there were some bias, I would suspect an opposite bias. People tend to want to bitch and moan.
/quote]

That's true if you're used to being in-different or not having anything to bitch about. But when you are used to having a less than stellar experience more often than not, what's the incentive to keep bitching about the same problems over and over again? It's when that usual experience suddenly changes to something very different that influences me to take the time to say anything about it.

And I'll agree that a day at a Six park is about on par with a day at a Cedar park (really depends on the specific parks), but that doesn't mean either is necessarily a great experience. I'd still rather go to many other places most of the time.

Acoustic Viscosity said:
But when you are used to having a less than stellar experience more often than not, what's the incentive to keep bitching about the same problems over and over again?

You got me there.

Someone without the incentive to quit going somewhere that sucks probably has even less incentive to mention that it sucks.

And I'll agree that a day at a Six park is about on par with a day at a Cedar park (really depends on the specific parks), but that doesn't mean either is necessarily a great experience.

Obviously. But in this case I think it is. If you're looking for the big regional large-park experience, SF is as good a choice as any.

Yeah, I don't think anyone was arguing for or against corporate parks here. Someone that prefers traditional parks and doesn't care for corp. parks isn't going to be thrilled with either CF or SF. I don't think LK has ever really stated his preference, so if He's a hard core traditionalist thats fine, but then don't complain because SF parks are doing a bad job, complain because you don't like that type of park.

Being someone that likes corporate parks, The 2 chains feel the most alike at this point.

Lord Gonchar said:
Someone without the incentive to quit going somewhere that sucks probably has even less incentive to mention that it sucks.

I was wondering when you'd jump to that extreme.

I never said the place sucks. It's still better than going to work. ;) I go to ride Nitro and see the fireworks (which are spectacular and better than any ride there) and meet up with friends. Once in a while the park is running great and isn't too busy. Those are the special, out of the ordinary days, not the norm. Some of my friends who live even closer to the park may visit 20+ times a season (because it's convenient and virtually free with a season pass) and they will say the same thing. Sometimes they leave as soon as they get there if it's busy, because they know it's going to be a miserable day, where as at other parks, you can still have a great day when it's packed because they are so efficiently operated.

There may be people spouting off hate for the park despite not having any up to date evidence to back it up, but some of us do have the experiences to back it up.I love all parks as long as they are well operated and keep me entertained. All of them have their "off" days, even Knoebels and Disney. Unfortunately some parks don't have enough "on" days.

That said, even I will agree Great Adventure's operations have improved since I first started visiting in 2001, but they are still below average for "big park quality" IMO.

Acoustic Viscosity said:
There may be people spouting off hate for the park despite not having any up to date evidence to back it up, but some of us do have the experiences to back it up...

That said, even I will agree Great Adventure's operations have improved since I first started visiting in 2001, but they are still below average for "big park quality" IMO.

And that's fine, but there are multiple posts in this thread and trip reports from the past few seasons that greatly disagree and those are more in line with my experience.

(Which is awfully similar to the consensus of opinion expressed about Big Dipper in that other thread now that I think about it ;) )

What can I say? I would be as confident in recommending a SF park to someone as I would a CF park (moreso in certain cases) - and that was never true prior to '06.

And if I'm to believe what I read around here, it seems I'm not alone - nor in the minority.