El Toro replacing Voyage in #1 rankings.

Associated parks:

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:45 PM
matt.'s avatar If there's a group of people out there who have ridden both El Toro and Voyage this early on, I would assume that most would have relatively extensive track records.

I don't see why any coaster being discussed needs to be "defended" or anything. Even if either coaster ends up being ranked #1 it still doesn't matter in the long run - eventually all I care about is my own opinion.

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:48 PM
Matt, the question really should be: if you could ride either ride at least once a day for the rest of your life would you be happy? If the answer is yes then it really doesnt matter as both are clearly slam dunks.

Why is it that I allways go to parks a year before they put in a big ride (sigh, likely to happen for the 3rd year in a row this year, 2004-BGT, 2005-HW, 2006-BGE.)

2020 Trips: Canceled by Corona

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:02 PM
I think I can add a valid opinion as somebody that has ridden both. I first want to say that this is my first post after reading posts on this site for nearly two years. I work in the industry and am also an enthusiast. I normally enjoy reading everyones comments and am satisfied with that. I cannot resist the opportunity to comment on these two rides.

First, not to forget the Rumbler. The Kentucky Rumbler was an amazing ride. I have come to compare GCI to being the ladylike version of the wooden coaster. They are smooth, elligant, and have beautiful curves. This ride does not lose its speed and provides great pops of air through the ride's short course. This makes me a big believer in GCI and will be a great addition to an up and coming park.

Now for the big boys...

I went to SFGADV yesterday after hearing word of El Toro's opening and it conviently being my day off. It opened around 3 or so. (I first spent 2.5 hours waiting through 2 traing Kingda Ka operation but that's its own story) After the opening I get there with the line coming out the queue, which isn't that long to begin with. DJs provided some entertainment. This short queue took nearly 3 hours to get through. I found the answer when I got to the station and one that many of you might be waiting to hear...Intamin Lapbars!!! The park had 2 attendants checking the entire 36 person train. When they would reach a larger guest they would take some time to try and push the lapbar down and then release the restraints for the whole train and start from the begining. A good dispatch meant the train was only in the station for 3 or 4 minutes. A second train would have done little to speed things up so I doubt that this will improve with time. It looks like Mill Force all over again. Beautiful bulls are on the front of the trains.

For the ride itself. The staff made sure to tightly secure the lapbar on all guests, and for good reason. This was an amazing ride. The cable lift takes you up the lift in just over 5 seconds at 25mph! Which gives you good speed when you get to that very steep drop. The ride has a very fast outrun with tight runs on the top of hills that do provide some extreme neg. gs. With the restraint system there really is no room to experience the float, not to mention the speed that this thing goes at. The back run to the station is also very fast with an amazingly fast drop in the Rolling Thunder ride area. From here the ride was a little bit of a let down. The zig zags did very little to disorient the riders and the last couple of hills were very slow leaving it with a bit of dud of a finale.

Overall the ride was amazing. Could have had more of a finale. I have mixed feelings about the Intamin wood system. Using polyurithane wheels and the smoothness of the ride left me wondering what the point of the wood structure was. I felt like I was riding a steel coaster. I don't see the point in maintaining and replacing all of the wood when a steel coaster could have provided everything that ride did. I don't want extreme shaking on a wood but I do enjoy some.

Now to answer the question at hand, and this is only IMO, I prefer the voyage without a doubt. To me there is no contest. The voyage does have beautiful scenery in the woods, but that doesn't sell me on a ride. The voyage provides a constant speed that I have never experienced before on any coaster. It's airtime in unmatched and is clearly the air time king. From the top of the second hill to the bottom of the second hill your butt will not touch the seat. The PTC restraints provide a great ride experience but still do an amazing job manuvering the tight, fast manuvers that the layout contains. The stop with a block brake is welcomed by a tripple down on the other side. Constant speed back to the station, the tunnels, the 90 degree coasters. I don't know what more I could want from a coaster. And I was definetly on a wooden coaster.

From a capacity standpoint HW will do great with three trains. It is scary to believe that when comparing two new beautiful wooden coasters that due to opening on time and PTC trains instead of Intamin a new wooden coaster in southern Indiana is going to give thousands of more rides this summer than a new wooden coaster located between Philly and New York.

Not much more to say. I almost want to have three catagories now... Steel Coasters, Wooden Coasters, and Intamin Wood Coasters. El Toro was truly unique to everything I have ever ridden. Both are amazing rides that you all will love to have your track record. Ride them both and decide for yourself. I tip my hat to both parks for investing in rides that are not always typical of the industry.

Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:01 AM
hey Gravity....great first post, that was a wonderful trip report:) very well written...you will fit in great here, believe me! im concerned, i havnt had luck the last two years riding MF, ive gained a little weight....is El Toro as bad? im going to Gadv next tues, and id hate to not be able to fit...im about a 38-40 waist right now....anyway, just thought id ask.
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:25 AM
nasai's avatar

Charles Nungester said:
Hey great Geek of the NW Rob, when is pt. 3 comming out?


Sorry.... who'da thought you'd be asking me about my TR in someone else's? ;)

I've had a rough past few days, and a good buddy of mine died today, so I'm a little out my mood to type up a full-on TR. Sadly, the last 2 days might be a bit of a letdown.

The Flying Turns makes all the right people wet - Gonch

Wednesday, June 14, 2006 1:15 AM
I found El Toro's restraints in terms of room to be very similar to MF. I have a 38 waist and fit in fine but saw people slightly larger turned away. When will the Europeans learn that Americans love their Double Quarter Pounders with Cheese??? Sorry to say that there was no sizing seat there yesterday. Best of luck vacoaster.
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:02 AM
I'd like to add one thing... The Intamin woodie trains can't deliver a good ride on their own, unfortunately. You can thank the laser cut wooden tracks for that!

Coaster Express (previously Wild Wild West) at Parque Warner Madrid (previously Warner Brothers Movie World Madrid) use the Intamin woodie trains, with T bars this time on a standard RCCA structure and track. Design was Werner Stengel office, like for El Toro. Opening year, Coaster Express was smooth, but boring. Recently? Rough and boring! So those trains can't do miracles on any wooden coasters you throw them on. You need the laser cut tracks for them to do wonders. *** Edited 6/14/2006 7:03:09 AM UTC by Absimilliard***

Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:23 AM
Sorry to hear about your friend Rob. My sincerest condolences to you and your friends family.


Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:40 AM
Isn't this a Vs. thread? Where are the TOS police?
I survived a Japanese typhoon and the Togo flat ride of death!!!!!!
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:34 PM
nasai's avatar

tambo said:
Sorry to hear about your friend Rob. My sincerest condolences to you and your friends family.


Thanks buddy. :)

The Flying Turns makes all the right people wet - Gonch

Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:01 AM
coasterqueenTRN's avatar I will get to New Jersey later this fall, but I refuse to compare the two woodies. There were TOO many people comparing Voyage to Rumbler. I thought they BOTH kicked ass in their own special ways.

I am sure El Torro will kick ass as well, and I can't wait to ride it.


Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:33 AM
rollergator's avatar I don't mind compare/contrast even in the slightest, I tend to think of that in the same vein as *constructive criticism*.

Saying "this is plain better than that", or "this one sucks", to me there's nothing of VALUE being said in those statements...sure, I will rank for my GT ballot that just arrived, but if you think I'd turn down a ride on anything but te VERY worst of coasters, you're WAY mistaken.

"A bad ride n a coaster is still better than a good day at work". ;)

All that being said, looking forward to MY Toro ride(s)... :)

Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:44 PM
:) It's the Coaster Battle of the Year! :)

At Stake: The UNDISPUTED Heavyweight Coaster Champion of the World! ;)

Using the Free Airline Ticket I got from my trip to HW :) I'll be Flying to Philadelphia to Attend the Phoenix Phall Phun Phest at Knoebal's on October 7. Then, on Sunday I'll visit Dorney then on Monday (Columbus Day) SFGA will be Open so I'll determine for myself Whos Number One!

The Voyage vs El Toro

Plus several Undercard Events

Columbus Day Weekend


Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:47 PM
matt.'s avatar

rollergator said:
I don't mind compare/contrast even in the slightest, I tend to think of that in the same vein as *constructive criticism*.

Totally agree, I just hope that Voyage vs. El Toro doesn't become the new CP vs. SFMM. It seems as though the two go hand in hand when it comes to threads here on the cbuzz, still kinda scratching my head about that one. Not a big deal just kinda weird to me.

Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:14 PM
I really can't rank one of the other as I haven't ridden ET yet.

However in a slight change of topic. HW has about 7 million tied up in Voyage and Id think it be fair to say ET probably is in the 15+ million range.

Voyage may not beat ET in many peoples minds due to whatever reason, Im just impressed a family run park can at least compete and in manys view beat the Corporate behemoths (Well I can't say deep pockets but seemingly bottomless credit limit of SF)

Chuck, who still thinks KK and TTG are the worst investments ever in park history (But of course theres still SD2000 to consider)

Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:34 PM
Its hard not to compare one coaster to another, I can't help myself. Always looking for the next ride that will blow me away...

I am amazed that in a season of nearly unanimous praise of the Voyage, with it basically being anointed the greatest ride ever, that there is even a thread like this...emphasizes what a great crop of coasters we have recieved this year, with these 2, as well as the rumbler, and a few others.

Can't wait to ride ET, should be coming anyday now! Unfortunately, my first trip to HW will have to wait another year. The two seem to offer such different rides, is a comparison really possible?? *** Edited 6/16/2006 3:46:20 AM UTC by CoasterFan4Life***

Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:44 PM
^ No, but a whole bunch of corny jokes seem to be.
Friday, June 16, 2006 3:01 PM
So, El Toro is BETTER than VOYAGE?

When I get on El Toro I be saying,


Coaster Armageddon, 10/09/06!

Friday, June 16, 2006 10:10 PM
I went to SFGAdv yesterday (6/15) and here is my review of El Toro. Note that I haven’t ridden Voyage so I can’t compare it.

The wait was about two hours due to the single train operation and slow loading procedures. El Toro was definitely worth the wait though, even with the extremely annoying DJ that kept playing the same terrible songs over and over again while we were in line. However, I was pleasantly surprised by one nice thing they were doing. Security guards were actually handing out bottled water to the people waiting for FREE! Was this a one time occurrence? I’m not sure.

Despite the nasty stapling, this ride provides some of the most thrilling airtime I’ve ever experienced. Overall, I believe El Toro is better than the New England S:RoS (and I rode it before the restraint modifications) because of its comparable airtime, steep first drop (which I personally feel is better than the first drop on Millennium Force), abundant head choppers, and superior twister finale.

Compared to other wood coasters, I think I rank El Toro at number 2, just behind Phoenix and just ahead of Boulder Dash.

Also, on a slightly unrelated note, I saw Shapiro at the park. He rode in the front seat of El Toro on the next train after me. I did notice that the park looked pretty clean yesterday.

Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:02 AM
Before I say what I'm going to say, remember this is all coming from someone who you should all consider a part of the "general public". I have however visited several different parks and the coasters are always a must for me

With that out of the way..... I have been on The Voyage but unfortunatly not El Toro - so I can't give the comparision that some of you seem to be dying for. I can however state that The Voyage is truly something amazing and is unlike anything I've ever been on before. I'm sure that if I could ride El Toro I'd say something similiar. I'm also pretty sure I'd probably enjoy one more than the other. One thing I have learned is that no 2 coasters are exactly alike, and no 2 riders have the exact same preference in what kind of experience they like the best. However I think those of you who don't understand why some people rack their brains away to pick or predict who will take the #1 spot may be missing the point a bit.

My view on the whole who should/will get the #1 spot all has to do with the continued success of the park containing the coaster in question. For me I truly hope and "root" for Holiday World to take the top spot with The Voyage rather than Six Flags with El Toro. Holiday World is my "home" park. I've been visiting there since I can remember and I have personally seen the park grow from a place where I MIGHT want to spend a PART of my day, to a place where a season pass is almost necessary. For me, if the Voyage takes the #1 spot thats just one more thing Holiday World can market to attract more guests, more money, and in turn a bigger and better experience for me, the general public. I have no personal interest in seeing SFGADV being able to tout that #1 coaster.

Of course I'm sure thats completely different for some of you. HW is starting to obtain a track record of having top 10 woodies. Maybe some of you would love to see someone who is becoming a "champ" that that area to fail....or maybe,... I'm sure there are some of you who have grown up with Six Flags and have some of the same memories of that park that I do of HW. For you guys, I don't blame you for wanting/ranking El Toro #1....it's in your best interest that they DO get that spot and ARE able to market it.

My point is, I don't think the rankings are stupid, unwarrented, or pointless. Geeky or even dissapointing for those of you who's favorite coaster doesn't fall within their list, maybe and understandable. Besides, what's wrong with being a little geeky from time to time?

That's just my 2 cents. *** Edited 6/18/2006 9:04:47 AM UTC by HoliJohn***


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