Drachenfire speculation: TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!??!

Um 2Hostyl, um, if you're going to um, come back with um, a sarcastic kind of reply, um, you should atleast double check your spelling.

Ridership has fallen off the frakin map (as you call it) and into Lake Erie on the Mean Streak too, not to mention a ton of other coasters around the world. Whatever the reason, because people think that the rides are to rough or they have a bad case of hemorrhoids, or it's that time of the month and they just don't feel like riding that particular coaster that day, should all those coasters just get shut down. What a great idea that would be. If a certain coaster doesn't have atleast oh, lets say an hour wait, then that must mean the majority of people don't like it enough to ride it, so we'll just yank it out of operation. It's that kind of mentality that screws things for everyone. A few bad apples really do ruin the whole bunch!

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Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions

I HAVE ridden Drachen Fire both before and after the removal of the corkscrew.  I thought that it was much more exciting and smooth with the corkscrew (I thought it very disconcerting the first time I rode it without the element -- I was not aware it had been removed at the time).  As I recall, the worst headbanging occured on the cobraroll.  This, however, did not stop me from riding the ride five times in a row on one occasion.  Sadly, I also remember riding it at night during '96.  It was beautiful to watch because it was in a dark area of the park and had red lights along the side of it.  It was also a great ride because it was even more disorienting in the dark.  But, I was able to ride three rides in the time it took me to wait for one ride on Loch Ness.  I do not know what the answer is, but everytime I go (I drive 4 hours one way to go to BGW and I have a season pass) I miss the Fire.  I hope that Busch will look into lapbars.

There is no way that BGW is opening this thing without retracking it.  Most of you are seeming to forget that they closed it for a reason. It sucked because it was poorly designed, and nobody was riding it. You're making it sound like they closed the best coaster ever.

The thing is there isn't much around like drachen fire, i mean it's a arrow looper, yet it never does a traditional loop.
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Montu, God Of Coasters

Raging Bull, Don't Fight It, Ride It

I find it interesting how many people talk about "retracking" DF.  Retracking simply doesn't make sense for a steel coaster.  You might replace an entire section of a coaster, but on a steel coaster if you replace the track  and reprofile, you are going to be replacing essentially everything. 

Phantom's Revenge wasn't a retracking, it was a new coaster added to the end of the first 2 hills of Steel Phantom. I've ridden Drachen Fire and making it a half way smooth coaster would require replacing nearly everything after the first hill.  This made sense for the Phantom since the first 2 hills were classics, and Kennywood didn't have room to do build another major coaster.  It would make much more sense for Busch to either remove DF and build something else there or just build elsewhere like they did with Apollo's Chariot.

OK, first off, I never said that I thought that ANY or ALL members of the GP were clueless! If my words implied that kind of sentiment to you, when you read between my lines, then I'm very sorry. I certainly never meant to give anyone here the impression that I'm one of those ARROGANT members of ACE who thinks that anyone and everyone who's NOT a member of ACE is CLUELESS! I just joined ACE for the very first time last month! I haven't even gotten my membership card in the mail yet! I was just saying that Jeff's comments would have been less offensive if they were coming from someone who didn't know JACK about coasters, instead of the webmaster of one of the most popular roller coaster websites in the world! The "I hope you're not a member of ACE!" line was referring to the fact that ACE stands for coaster PRESERVATION, not coaster DESTRUCTION, for ANY reason! I don't have anything against ANYONE posting their opinions on this board, or anywhere else for that matter, but given Jeff's experience and knowledge on the subject of roller coasters in general, I felt that his comments were totally irresponsible, and out of line. Clearly, Jeff apparently is not a coaster ENTHUSIAST, he's just a coaster NUT! No self-respecting and self-proclaimed coaster ENTHUSIAST would EVER say what he said about Drachen Fire, and if you don't agree with me on that note, then you're just a coaster NUT too!
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http://www.gayrollerride.com

Well... after reading some of the comments by "enthusiasts", I often said I hate to consoder my self one. I always said I was a coaster "fan" not an "enthusiast". Since I agree with Jeff's comment about tear the thing down and put something new in its place, I am glad to know that I am now officially a coaster "nut".

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Comatose said:
Poor Drachenfire. I do wish they'd reopen it, I remember the only time I rode it thinking "why the hell doesn't Cedar Point get something like this?"
Then I was horribly disappointed by alpengeist, which just reinforced that. Could have someting to do with the 5.5 hour wait I went through, though. (2 hour line. Another 30 min for front seat. Ride broke down with me getting on THE NEXT TRAIN. No WAY was I leaving that sort of line position, so there I sat. And sat. and sat. And eventually came to the conclusion that raptor is a much better ride. Ah well.

Coma

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Yes, Coma was stuck in line for the front seat position, while *I* (being the smarter one of the 2,) opted for a close-to-back seat ride.
I wound up sitting out by the fake snow on the rocks for about an hour and a half watching them do the walkdown and thinking "dammit John, why did you have to wait for the front seat?"
All was well, though, considering we got at least 1 ride on every coaster in the park AND we got multiple laps on Drachen Fire. Interestingly enough, even though it was Alpie's innagural year, i was really more excited about riding DF (as this was my first trip to BGW). Last year when I took my parents to BGW, it was so sad seeing that thing sitting there. I remember the hangtime in that first twist-n-dive thing.
My dad and I talked about it for quite a while. (My dad seems to have some Enthusiast potential...)
oh well, those were the days,
 
Josh
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"You'll never get me on one of those hanging coasters with noting below your feet, let's go ride Alpengeist!" -My Dad, 2000-

Seeing as Busch Gardens is one of my hometown parks, I personally miss Drachen Fire. I was there for the opening day of Fire when Dana Carvey came down to BG (what a joke that was), and from that point on scored in about 100+ rides every season it was open. Personally I find that EVERY Arrow coaster is rough and bangy... that's just Arrow, but I found DF's unique elements too tempting to pass up.

My personal take on the banging issue falls under the fact that the seats were too deep. Comfortable, Yes... but the butt cup (is that an actual term?) was deeper than lake Erie! The deepness of the bucket seats added to the fact that the horsecollars were right at jaw/ear level causing severe jarring on a few areas of the ride. Me being 6'3 I was a bit higher than everyone else and actually had no problem with hitting too hard.

Will they open DF?? Doubt it. The printing company I work at prints the park maps for BG & BGT every few months to replenish their stock, and every month DF is nowhere to be seen on the map. Actually my heart breaks everytime that job comes in. :(

Would I like to see it open? DUH! I'd be there the next day after I hear of it opening. DF was and is an absolutely amazing ride.

Now as for the tear it down and build something else comment. Let me just state this. I spent the past 15 years hearing of how great CP and it's rides were. The hype got the best of me and I attended CP for the first time for the opening season of MF. Did CP live up to it's hype?? No. Quite frankly CP fell flat on it's face for me. Minus MF and Magnum, the rest of the coasters in the park were over braked (Lame..I mean.. Mean Streak, Mantis), overly rough (Mantis) and were just plain blah! (insert rest here). I personally enjoyed Kings Island and Six Flags more on my coaster trip than the Point. But then again.. that's just my opinion. Should CP tear down Mean Streak and insert a coaster that actually moves? No. I will just choose not to ride it if ever make it back up there again.

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Riding the rails from the East Coast to the West Coast

Joe Carroll said:
Also, looking at pictures of it on www.rcdb.com, the trains look different than the typical Arrow trains, are they ?

Rather than debate whether or not DF should be reopened (its all a matter of personal opinion... I would love to ride it again), I'd rather address this.  To answer your question, yes, the DF trains are different from most Arrow trains.  From what I understand, the chassis' are identical to those used on all Arrow looping coasters, but the bodies were redesigned to look sleeker and give the rider the feeling of being more exposed.

For the record, I believe the trains on Canyon Blaster in Vegas are identical to DF's, as well as those on the (closed) Big Dipper in Australia's Luna Park.

Let's all face it, even if you're a coaster enthusiast, you still a member of the general public. The "We're better than them because we know who designed the ride" mentality has got to stop. Now onto DF. My friend Paul, who used to work on Alpengeist, told me the other day that even on the busiest days, DF would have no more than a 10 minute line, because it was painful. Boy, that sounds like a ride I'd like to preserve. Let's face it everyone, coasters are inanimate objects. I agree it's nice that ACE and other organizations have saved some coasters from exiction. But, usually those coasters were worth saving. Drachen Fire is apparently not one of those coasters based on the lines. SFlake was absolutely correct that if open, we'd all be complaining about DF.

ARROW GUY said:
I like how everyone hates Ron Toomer, and yet this was his design!!! -------------

If memory serves me, they actually showed Ron the KUMBA design they originally wanted to install at BGW. And asked him if he could replicate the ride, and have it open by opening day, and of course he said yes.

I've ridden both versions of DRACHEN"FIRE" (not FYRE) and I never understood the dislike, it is a fine ride. I suspect that Doc Brown had something to do with the closing, not some endangered bird.
SAM

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Track Record 420 coasters in USA and Canada

You've got to be kidding. You mean BGW could've had a KUMBA?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Up Your Nose With a Rubber Hose!

Irondraggon said:
roller coaster in the world that debuted the world's first cobra roll
Drachen Fire did not introduce the world's first cobra roll. The Vekoma boomerangs did.
Irondraggon, I don't understand why you are screaming in a fit of furying rage at Jeff?! He has a point.
BGW will never reopen Drachen Fire, to my best knowledge. As much as I'd love BGW to reopen Drachen Fire, it won't happen.
PKDStar01: Yes, BGW could have had a B&M sit down; however, they wanted the coaster to open in '92, so they went with Arrow. Again, with my best knowledge.
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The Jet Coaster ROARS!
Will Johansson
http://xpp.coasterbuzz.com

*** This post was edited by The Jet Coaster on 10/17/2001. ***

Did they ever reopen it this season?
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Montu, God Of Coasters

Raging Bull, Don't Fight It, Ride It

Raven-Phile said:

Yes, Coma was stuck in line for the front seat position, while *I* (being the smarter one of the 2,) opted for a close-to-back seat ride.

 

So much for the anonymity of the net. Hey Josh. Ohay... here's the plan. We all rent cranes and large impact drivers then roadtrip it down to BGW. Someone says "hey, look over there" and we do a real quick disassembly job. Reassemble in back yard. Life is good. (anyone got a really big back yard?)

http://www.smart.net/~jworsley/timeline" target=_blankhttp://www.smart.net/~jworsley/timeline/P

*** This post was edited by Justin Worsley on 10/18/2001. ***

(Ignore the last post I just posted -- completed screwed it up. Oh well.)

If anyone is interested in Drachen Fire’s crazy history and checking out a cool DF video…

I'm currently working on a "Ride Guide" for Drachen Fire, a multimedia feast of photos, videos, and history regarding this once great ride. I feel it's important to document this misunderstood ride before it's sold, dismantled or whatever fate has in store for it.

So, I've made a pretty cool trailer, available right now to see, promoting the Ride Guide, which will debut this Thanksgiving. The video trailer is pretty awesome, and worth the download. (You'll need *both* the QuickTime 4 player and the latest Macromedia Shockwave [not Flash] Player.)

Check it out: http://www.smart.net/~jworsley/timeline and click on the Drachen Fire Ride Guide. And once you’re done with the ride guide, click on the BGW::TIMELINE. That’s pretty cool, too.

Hope everyone likes it. And I hope I don't screw up this post like the last one.

See ya

Justin