Denise Dinn hired by S&S
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Denise Dinn, the former owner of CCI, has been hired by S&S Power to start a wooden coaster division.
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I don't think that the reason CCI closed was financial reasons. I haven't really been following the case much, nor looking into it in any great detail, but it seems that it was just what she said. It closed because of her mariage problems.
She obviously didn't want something that she and her father worked tirelessly on, to be taken away by a nasty divorce. From what I've gathered, it was jointly owned by the two of them, and he could do some damage to the company if he wanted to. So Denise closed the doors, I'd imagine gave as much notice to the engineers and other employees, as possible - it wasn't as if one morning she woke up, decided to shut up shop and see what was around the next bend in her life.
I'd probably guess that the S&S merger was also in the picture right from when she made the decision to close down - who knows, maybe the decision was made well before the divorce was even in mind - they were just waiting for the right time?
I think even CCI's dirt-cheap prices were highly profitable. The competition for Wooden Coasters isn't too great, and they've been building more than ever in recent-ish years (this year I guess is a bit of an exception, due to extenuating circumstances). So really, they didn't need to charge that little to get the edge over the competition - their edge it seems, was top quality rides, built with satisfaction and experience in mind.
Admittedly, for the same ride from other companies, would have a few extra million on top. Maybe CCI had a tighter and better business plan than competition, so they can afford to charge less, yet still go home at the end of the day and see food on the table.
Anyway, who says that S&S aren't going to bring their prices more in-line with competition.
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So what if the best coaster in Australia is a second hand Arrow?
So Denise closed the doors, I'd imagine gave as much notice to the engineers and other employees, as possible - it wasn't as if one morning she woke up, decided to shut up shop and see what was around the next bend in her life.
Sorry, I don't go for this. Cliff's is left on their own to finish their coaster. Indiana Beach is on their own if they have to make modifications to LoCoSuMo.
Considering the fact the CCI have built 4 of the 5 top rated woodies in the world, it is good that some of the expertise of the company will live on in S&S.
Also, this is good for S&S, because they really need to expand, as their is a limit on the number of parks that will buy their current product range.
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I don't think that the reason CCI closed was financial reasons. I haven't really been following the case much, nor looking into it in any great detail, but it seems that it was just what she said. It closed because of her mariage problems.
You can think whatever you want, but the bankruptcy papers I got from the court sure look pretty real to me. The vendors who are owed money and parks that are owed work aren't imaginary either. Please, the marriage thing sounds like a scapegoat to me.
You guys make it sound like Dinn was the one behing a workstation designing these things. That isn't how it was. Other than being the owner and manager who managed the business into Chapter 7, I think you overstate her worth to the industry. I can assure you that most former employees have little desire to work for the person that put them on unemployment.
Another dimension I keep hearing about is that S&S wants their hands in everything, more for ego than good business sense.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM
All I can say is that S&S is building up one hell of a product line:
Thrust Air
Wood
4th Dimension
Suspended
Corkscrew
Hyper
Minetrain
Wild Mouse
Logflumes
and all the flatrides like the Antique Autos, etc.
S&S is on a roll.
Also, I though the owner was Stan Checketts, not Rick Allen.
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Off with the trims!
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You really need to get some more BRAN in your diet
S & S does not build quality products. Look at all the problems with hypersonic. Compare their towers to Intamin, just in looks. So they are going to go crazy and expand their horizons when they cannot make a few quality products? It looks like Vekoma 2.
As far as the GCI coasters. They are the best. No brakes until the end. That IS intense. If you want coasters that beat the crap out of you, there are plenty of them out there, GCI does not need to go there. Their coasters are wonderful to look at, wonderful to ride, and full of nice twists and turns and surprises.
Good point super7. I was worried when I heard S&S was looking to gobble up Arrow for the same reason -- neither have been doing reliable work lately. I think S&S would be better served to focus on what they're doing now and make that stuff better. But CCI did do good work, so if Dinn can carry that over to her S&S division then I think we'll be seeing more CCI-like coasters and not some maintenance nightmare ones.
I don't know the details of the Dinn-CCI fiasco, but I think S&S must have had some good reason for hiring her, whether it be to get the CCI engineers or because they think she can manage a division well or whatever. Maybe they're just suckers for a big name in the industry, but I'm leaning the other way and thinking they made a good move. But I'm one of those who will just have to wait and see before rendering my final judgement....
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PLEASE READ: This post wasn't meant to offend or anger anyone; I apologize in advance if it does. So please don't post a reply just to rant about it. :)
What's next? B&M-Vekoma?
We already have Chance-Morgan, S&S-Dinn...
I am not trying to create endless speculation, but with Arrow going under it just seems that this is the tip of the iceberg.
Is that likely, Jeff?
Hmmm... PopWorld Media wouldn't be on that bankruptcy list of creditors, would it? ;)
It seems to me that S&S is biting off more than it can chew, if they don't watch it, they'll be the ones in bankruptcy court next.
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"When I was growing up, we were taught something called manners. You'd understand that if you weren't such an idiot." - Jack Handey
I agree. S&S has been under their own turmoil with their Vertigo and thrust air problems. They are having a hard time selling any of their new ideas and that is the main reason why they hired Denise and company. They know that CCI coasters were in demand, but their business practices were sub par. They intend to offer that CCI quality with Stan's great business sense. Expect the price points to rise to average industry levels. Trust me, Denise will be pretty much a face person. S&S is basically buying the Dinn name and reputation for quality. Her business practices turned off companies like Six Flags and S&S doesnt need her out there doing the same for them.
As for why CCI closed, from what I hear, they both did their best to bring the value of the company down to a point where the other would just walk away. They each didnt want to sell their half of the company. So, they did what they could to drive CCI's net worth down. In the process, they caused the chapter 7 bankruptcy. Unlike 11, chapter 7 is TOTAL LIQUIDATION of assets to pay off creditors.
A great movie to understand the CCI saga would be the War of the Roses. They each destroy their house because they dont want the other to have it.. Same exact thing....
I knew about the S&S thing the day before CCI announced its closure. I got a call from one of their main people late one night telling me that he was gonna go work for S&S. But, I was told to be hush hush about it because it wasnt final at the time. They new about 2 weeks before they closed their doors so they would start looking for other jobs.
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Hypersonic has its problems but everywhere you see S and S turbo drops and space shots. Dodopana has not had the problems Hypersonic has had, at least I don't believe it has.
Also while GCI makes some great insanely twisted rides their intensity does not match up with the Intensity or forcefullness of a CCI. Look at Cornball or Legend to see just how twisted and insane CCI was when given free reign to do so.
Regardless I believe CCI's problem lied in the fact that they undersold themeselves. If you could build a 5 million dollar GCI or a 3 Million dollar CCI that were very very comparable. Who would you go to?
You can't keep doing this forever and Denise Dinn and the rest of CCI paid for it. I think the industry realizes this which is why I think S and S would hire her.
Also how many more parks are getting drop rides? PKD next year and that is all I have heard. S and S badly needs to diversify into more areas. They have the capital so why not take over Arrow's product line and start up a new Wooden Coaster Division.
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The Beast and Night, They go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly
Hmmm... PopWorld Media wouldn't be on that bankruptcy list of creditors, would it? ;)
What ever would give you that idea? ;)
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"Let's stop saying 'don't quote me,' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying." - Dogma, KMFDM
Grant said:Considering the fact the CCI have built 4 of the 5 top rated woodies in the world, it is good that some of the expertise of the company will live on in S&S. Also, this is good for S&S, because they really need to expand, as their is a limit on the number of parks that will buy their current product range.
To leave the topic just a second: Says who? There is no poll or survey out there that ranks all woodies worldwide.
-Golden Ticket Awards are pretty much bogus if your gonna' say best in the world, since they have less than 3,000 voters of which 1/3 of them live in Ohio, so you can tell what is biased there.
-Discovery's Top 10 was just an online poll where you voted your favorite out of ten coasters. Didn't even pick your own. For all we know, someone could have hacked into that poll and given 10,000 votes to the Beast, it also didn't feature any coasters outside of the USA in the votings to begin with.
That would be souly an opinion by you alone. If I were to rank top 5 woodies worldwide, there would be only one CCI up there.
Magnum Force said: Also while GCI makes some great insanely twisted rides their intensity does not match up with the Intensity or forcefullness of a CCI. Look at Cornball or Legend to see just how twisted and insane CCI was when given free reign to do so.
I can agree with you on forcefulness, though I'd rather go with Intamin woodies for force over GCI any day. But twisted? Compared to the twistedness of any of GCI's coasters, Legend would be considered a line with a curve in it. Legend is a great woodie but nowhere near as twisted as a GCI.
*** This post was edited by Vertigo on 8/7/2002. ***
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"When will you stop all your buzzing?" - The Flaming Lips "Oh My Pregnant Head"
I'll say more about this soon....(when have I ever been at a loss for words, LOL).....but I do seem to remember a post or two from Chris Godsey *suggesting* this as an outcome of the CCI bankruptcy.....
Believe me, while Denise's *rep* within the industry may have been as Jeff suggests, her rep with parks NOT branded SF seems to have been fine, and I'm pretty sure none of the businesses in the industry were awful fond of all the business CCI was getting.....(perhaps more than a *bit* of professional jealousy showing). Certainly Denise needed some help in estimating job cost....I think most of CCI's projects would've shown SOME profit had ALL gone "according to plan". The problem with that method of estimating cost/profit is that IRL nothing EVER goes completely smoothly...esp. in the construction field......
Again, I promise to have more to say later....;)
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If you're not watching "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart", you're just watching the news....
Aside from the Vertigo incident and Hypersonic's issue, have other S & S attractions had issues. S & S does not build quality products?....that would be news to the many many parks world wide that have their space shot and turbo drop towers (which is what S & S is famous for)I have heard of no issues with any of their towers, or the Thrust Air at Dodopana. The Vertigo issue was that CP removed the braces for the winter, how is this S & S's fault?
Why fault a company for wanting to expand it's product line and bring in some big names to help them. As other's have said, Denise really didn't design the rides, that's what the designers and engineers are for. But S & S is hoping to capitalize on the name, which in my opinion is a smart business move, regardless of how we feel about her. We do not sign the contracts.
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wof fan
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