Declining attendance at Cedar Point leads to admission price cuts
dannerman said:
Gonch, you don't count cost of gas in the park trip because you live close to an amusement park.. that's the argument.
I understand that, but I was talking big trips as well. For example, this past summer we did the big two week trip. 2200 miles, 16 days, 15 parks (well, it was cut a bit short thank to my kids throwing up in my shoes) - I didn't figure a cold hard total for gas. That came out of that 'extra' money.
In the end gas wasn't even 10% of the total trip cost.
I think that's the difference between the solo or couple and the family when taking a trip. With myself, the wife and the kids - that's 4 admissions, that's food for four, that's a game or two for the kids, that's inevitably a trinket from a gift shop for each kid - after that gas is just a small fraction of the price and the difference if you figure the rising cost is an even smaller (absolutely inconsequential, really)
We're a family of four that lives 175 miles from CP. We have CF season passes and didn't even go this year - and it had nothing to do with pricing.
But even still, let's assume we didn't have those passes and we wanted to go and force a day trip (although, I'd be more inclined to stay):
-Just to get in would be $179.80.
-Parking would be $9.00
-For a day at CP, I'd leave us near $75 to $100 for in park spending (food, games, etc)
That's an estimate of somewhere between $250 and $300 for a day at CP. I wouldn't even do the math on gas and/or tolls. I'd just round up and say it'd be $300 to go to CP for the day and we'd be fine.
The cold, hard math on those are roughly $60 on gas (both ways at $3 a gallon) and IIRC, $6 or $8 on tolls.
Again, I subscribe to the same logic as Brian - even if gas was at $2 a gallon, the difference is $280 vs $300 and that's not even close to what it'd take for us to think twice.
And that logic applies to dropping the gate as well. Great, they add a 'package' that let's my family of four in for $150 (a 17% discount - which I'd think would be HUGE) - that's $30. Now my cost is $245 - $270 instead of $275 - $300. It's not going to change a thing. Are people really avoiding the park because of $30? Really? Well maybe, if they claim to be doing it on $30 in gas prices. I guess it's that magical "perceived value" thing again.
The reason we're not too gung-ho and getting back is exactly the family thing. There's not much for our littlest to do and what is there is placed illogically. It's not easy for one of us to take our older child on a coaster or two while the other parent hangs around with the youngest on some nearby kiddie rides (which is our standard approach to getting 'big' rides in at parks with just the four of us) - and you could argue that many SF parks group their kiddies in similar fashion, but our counter for that is the magical Q-bot.
In fact, we think of CP as more of a 'big people's place'. We've been to CP 7 years of the past 11 (skipping just each of the two summers my wife was pregnant and 2004 and 2005) and of the 7 we went, we took the kids (or a kid) just twice. THat's the key problem - we don't even think of the park like we do other parks. It's not somewhere we go for family fun, it's where we run off to occasionally when Grandma takes the kids for the weekend or we want to get together with other friends and hang at a park.
I don't think pricing is the problem - the lack of capturing a certain demographic is. I said this in the news thread a few days ago:
...especially when you look at the park in the south part of the state that seems to be hellbent on capturing that demographic - and subsequently their attendance seems to be on the rise.
And 'that park in the southern part of the state' charges the same price at the gate. So either people are really anal about the few dollars in gas (possible) or those who will drop the most money know where to go to get their money's worth (probable).
Problem is, it doesn't sound like next year's attraction is going to address the issue unless they have something else planned.
I'm planning a 10-day, 6-park Cedar Fair (sans KBF, which I'll be doing in March) trip for 4. I haven't booked hotels yet (plenty of time before June.. LOL) however mapsonus has the mileage just over 2900... and with conservative estimates based on previous travel experiences, it's looking like about half of the trip cost will be gas.
Edit: Sorry, it doesn't include park admission since I will have a CF season pass anyway, and thus I consider it that I will get in all the parks for free.
*** Edited 9/30/2005 8:00:08 PM UTC by dannerman***
When queried by an outside firm, 15 percent of respondents in Detroit and Indianapolis - key markets for Cedar Point - who hadn't visited a park this year cited fuel prices. The top response, however, was "no money"
Sounds like they can blame around 15% of that 4% decline, or a whopping "0.6%" on gas prices. That 15% estimate is prolly even less for the Toledo and Cleveland markets.
Now, not have money due to everyday fuel expendetures is another story, but in park and gate prices are way to high to begin with.
Fuel for thought ;). *** Edited 9/30/2005 8:54:09 PM UTC by Joe E.***
Hotels ran right around $100 a night (some we as low as $79, some as high as $139), we only had season passes for three of the parks so daily admission for 4 (which ranges from $80 for small parks to as much as $175 for bigger parks - like the CP example), the 'standard' $75 to $100 a day for expenses (even out of park, a meal at crap-ass McDonald's runs $15 for four - $20 in the jacked up tourist traps), parking at the parks, we did the ferry across Lake Michigan, touristy extras in the Dells, the Mall Of America, etc.
Could you cut money from that? Sure, but I won't. I'm not staying in a $39 room. I see no point in not letting the kids have fun and play a game or get a souvenir. (hell, why not just leave them in the car ;) ) I could've driven around the lake, but screw that. We could pack picnic baskets full of sandwiches, but that's not my idea of a vacation. And so on and so on.
In my eyes, I did cut costs. By not flying or renting a car.
Do the math and even on a good day we were blowing though a chunk of change - and we ran two full weeks.
It costs a lot to drag a full family of four across the country doing this sort of thing and doing it comfortably.
In contrast, at 25 to 30mpg, we only filled up 6 times. 18 gallons at $2.60 a gallon (average at the time?) is around $280 to cover 2200 miles. I believe that's certainly on the high end of what we probably spent on gas and that wouldn't even be 10% of the total cost.
*** Edited 9/30/2005 10:36:21 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
The declining attendance is due to the fact the general public has overextended themselves financially!! People have become so accustomed to swiping credit cards to pay for everything. I have not used a credit card in over 5 years for anything! If you don't have the cash you don't need it. Credit cards used to be for an emergency. Taking a family to the amusement parking and swiping the plastic is not and emergency! The increase in fuel is not enough of a reason to not go somewhere. It did not stop me from going to PKI this weekend ($2.94 a gallon). And this is about a 500 mile round trip.
Depending on the week and on what weather activites are occuring a tank of fuel costs me and additional $4 to $6 dollars a week. That is not hard to swallow if you don't spend like a fool. The parks and other forms of entertainment and amusement are being forced to lower their prices because the general public is not responsible for their spending!
If the general public cannot afford to go that is not our problem. There are many other things on this planet that are more important than a family who cannot stay on a budget and therefore the cannot budget a trip to an amusement park.
If you think it sucks now...wait until you get these little notices from your credit card companies alerting you that there will be a change in how the minimum due is calculated. For some it will not be a big deal for others....well...it will suck.
- The change in price will do nothing about the "babysitting service". According to everything that has been released so far, Season Pass prices will stay the same - THAT is what affects the babysitting service, since they are the ones who come back day after day. (When you think about it, the so-called babysitting service actually helps attendance since you have 1 person clicking the turnstiles upwards of 50 times in a season).
Although personally against a drop in gate prices (how about just keeping it the same for a few years, and increasing the value, along with heavy discounts. You could even have bonus charity days where if you bring in a can of soup you get $20 off like Knott's does occasionally) I think a drop in prices will do wonders for attendance. It'll bring back people that haven't gone in a few years, not to mention make people more apt to spend money in the park. I don't know why in-park spending ratio is as cherished as the accessories attachment ratio in retail - if they spend $50 to get in and $50 in park, what's the difference of $30 to get in and $70 in park? *shrugs* Anywho, I think their in-park spending numbers will go up - even after you adjust the figure for any price increases (i.e. $300,000 with a $3 soda to me would be the same as $250,000 with a $2.50 soda) ... but I digress..
-As for credit cards, I disagree with your argument on principle. I use credit cards very heavily - but I never carry a balance. When I go to a store, I can either pay $15 for a CD in cash, or I can swipe the plastic then stop at a bank on the way home and deposit the $15 into an interest-bearing account. Adding in the 1% I get back towards stock with my Sharebuilder Visa to that interest, and that CD has cost me closer to $14.80. Now if you REALLY want to go nuts on the numbers, that credit towards stock I use to buy CF's stock, and with the dividends which then compound, theoretically, eventually that CD won't cost me anything :). But seriously, since I pay off the balance in full every month, I never pay interest charges, but get the benefits. With cash, you get nothing but the item you bought. Heck, I just bought a new car and decided to put the $1000 down payment on my credit card, scoring a quick $10 worth of stock. The key is NOT to eschew the plastic. The key is never use the plastic for more than what money you already have.
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