Declining attendance at Cedar Point leads to admission price cuts

Let Michigan play a game every day of the week for 3 straight months and see what tickets go for.

Apples to Pogo Sticks comparison!

P.S. Open Cedar Point for 6 Saturdays a year and see what they could charge...

P.P.S. If this were SEC football (sans Kentucky)...there is no way you could get in for $59 short of donating a kidney to the school...otherwise you pay the scalpers like everybody else!

Go Vols! :-) *** Edited 9/28/2005 4:04:00 AM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

Excellent Post Charles! And I couldn't agree more. Most Americans simply don't have the desposible cash flow that we did 10 years ago. Heck, alot of us are in the same situation Six Flags is in ( I think we should remember that lest we judge so harshly). People are choosing their entertainment much more carefully. Parks will have to adjust, plain and simple.

This will mean lowering prices and offering more bang for the buck. Paramount has been right on the money with making their parks more well rounded instead of bragging about stupid records that don't last more than a year. Cedar Point had better get with the program. They seem to be getting it.

The question isn't what the football team couldn't get if they played every day for six months, or what CP could charge if it were open twice a year. And, even if I were to grant you the football example, ski resorts are much more similar in their seasonal/weekend-heavy nature, and are even more expensive.

The question is: what does a family of four pay for a day's worth of entertainment. As far as I can tell, they pay between $200 and $300 for it, and that's what they'd pay at CP too.

I'm still a bit surprised by this discussion. Large segments of CBuzz ***** and moan about SF giving away the gate and *still* suffering poor attendance all the time. CF's normally-reticent CEO gets himself quoted as considering a reduction in admission prices, and suddenly it's a great idea?

Other *amusement parks* are increasing attendance and increasing prices at the same time. Presumably, some of them are in the rust belt, facing the same economic climate that CP is. That economic climate didn't just collapse yesterday, it's been horrible for at least a decade. I'd even argue that CP's annual dollar-or-two increases haven't materially changed the cost----it's been expensive for a family of four for a long while.

But, I agree that there is a value perception problem---but I wonder whether the perception has changed not because of the costs paid, but the benefits gained. So, what else might explain the changing value proposition? Could it be the fact that food service is generally incompetent? Could it be that the operations procedures (until recently) were so draconian that guests feel abused every time they get in line? Could it be that the increased use of auto-speils and silly "safety" measures (plexiglas covers on Woodstock's seatbelts---a ride that younger children must ride with their parents) continue to suck the life out of the park? Could it be that the recent additions only address one segment---the thrill-seeking teens/young adults? Could it be that the park's attitude about the Millennium Force restraint issue positively sucks? Note that I'm not arguing that the park shouldn't implement exactly what Intamin tells them to, but they could at least act as if they were sorry about it rather than responding to complaints with a form letter that effectively reads "tough noogies."

Don't get me wrong, I'm about as big a CP fanboy as they come. But still, I'm surprised at how many folks here are willing to give them a total pass based on an economic argument that doesn't seem to me to hold water.

DWeaver: you'll notice, though, that PKI doesn't charge any less for admission than CP does. You'll also notice that the Ohio Valley economy looks an awful lot like the Great Lakes economy. Yet, their attendance is improving. So, how is it that the admission price is CP's problem? I just don't buy it.

I agree Brian. I think it is a number of things that are taking their toll over the last few years.

I think the TTD downtime, MF issues and the other things you mentioned are all factors in the attendance decline. Also, for families, GL or PKI are much better options.

I think their resort could use a lot of work as well, it can't hold a candle to the Universal resorts where I want to stay because its a great place to stay, not just because its convenient. Outside of the tower, the Hotel Breakers is a dump.

Ordinarly, I'd agree with you on the resorts side, but there are two big exceptions. The first is Lighthouse Point. The cottages and cabins are both very nice, and very attractive. The second is castaway bay. The rooms and in-room amenities are in need of refurbishment and some upgrades, but that is scheduled, and one wing is already underway, I believe. The public areas, waterpark, and activities are all great. Even the restaurant is an improvement over what CP resorts typically provide---a made-to-order omelet station, and carved roast beef on the Sunday breakfast buffet for what I thought was a reasonable price. We didn't sample any, but the spa offerings look positively first-class.

Castaway really does fit the definition of "resort" in a way that Breakers doesn't quite manage.

*** Edited 9/28/2005 3:30:55 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

For what it's worth, season pass prices were announced today. Summary:

Regular/child advance purchase prices were held constant, but not lowered. The language leaves open the possibility that in-season pricing might be the same, or it might go up, but it won't go down.

The senior pricing is back, and equivalent to child pricing. (I think this is a great move, and was to be expected given the resumption of single-day senior pricing.)

For an extra $10 over the "normal" CP parking pass cost, you can get a parking permit that is also valid at GL. I think this is new for '06, and another great idea.

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Charles Nungester said:
Value and word of mouth beat advertising everytime.

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"Value" is a tricky concept, but for those who really GET that idea, not only is the parking lot full, but the gift shops can't keep merchandise in stock....and THAT is also some nice (better-than-free to the park) advertising in itself...

The reduction of the senior ticket is wise and it should have never been eliminated to begin with. I don't have any argument with not decreasing the season pass prices. For those that visit regularly that really is a good value.

We get more than our fare share of use out of our passes, that's for sure. We probably cross the Cedar Point turnstiles 8-10 days per year, and the Soak City entrance three or four times. True, some of those entrances are only for an hour or two, and in '06 I think we have to bump up to four regular passes from three regular/one child. But, even so, we'll get plenty of value for the $625 we end up spending on admission plus parking for next year.

Certainly more value than we get for the appx $600 I spend on my pair of Michigan football tickets, actually. Especially this season! ;)

You know, I've been thinking about this and I believe we can do a fair comparison with another company that was seeing declining sales and decided to do some interesting sales/advertising.

Why not go the General Motors way and advertise a lower price with some kind of window for attendance. Like between May and July 1st come to Cedar Point for 29.99 thats x number of dollars off the regular admission price "We make it easy to spend a day with your family, at an affordable price!" Some kind of slogan like that.

I mean lets think about this how many people really do pay regular admission price. We can find discounts everywhere grocery stores, AAA, other such locations, they would make up for the $10 or so they lost on admission on concessions, or lodging, or any other misc. expenses.

It just makes sense not to lower the overall price for admission but offer a good discount for a short period of time, and try to increase attendance when less people would be in the park normally.

Best admission prices on the planet!

Taxes, Lower the income tax and the govt collects more sales tax.

Addmission and price in the park. Lower them and people spend more in the park.

I can't believe the wad I blew at Kennywood or the fact that I eat twice at Holiday World and buy a couple shirts that are reasonably priced.

Theres other ways of getting the hundred bucks a person these parks wanna slap you with upon entering. Deterent IMHO.

I don't have facts but I suspect their "peak" season performed poorly in relation to previous years or Mr. Kinzel wouldn't have made that public statement.

Prices are high, there isn't any way around it. Not too mention, as has been previously addressed, it has been quite some time since anything was built to attract the FAMILY as opposed to the thrill seekers.

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I suspect their "peak" season performed poorly in relation to previous years

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That's also consistent with the rumblings from the operations employees that ParkOps was trying to squeeze every last cost-savings they could out of the park in the last month or so. For example: only running one train on CP&LE RR for much of August, completely canning Freeway before Labor Day, etc.

I think an "offseason" discount is a good idea, and they actually do this already, but never at the ticket windows---you have to know to go to the website and print the coupon to get the discount. Despite all of the discount opportunities, it never fails to amaze me how many people appear to pay the walk-up price at the park.

"DWeaver: you'll notice, though, that PKI doesn't charge any less for admission than CP does. You'll also notice that the Ohio Valley economy looks an awful lot like the Great Lakes economy. Yet, their attendance is improving. So, how is it that the admission price is CP's problem? I just don't buy it".

Look a little deeper. Paramount also has started to include alot more in their admission price including waterparks and "current" identifiable product placements. Their goal is to get the entire family into the park *AND* make them feel like it was worth it for *everyone*, not just the teens.

No question, PKI offers more for the "typical family of four" (well, three now, LOL) than CP does....Golden Ticket after Golden Ticket all saying that PKI has THE place for kids...

INCLUSIVE waterparks are the way of the future, and inevitable...nobody goes to a park for rollercoasters alone (unless they go to SFMM that is)... ;)

Inclusive waterparks are fine but not at resorts. Should Disney include Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon with a Magic Kingdom ticket? Of course not.

If people aren't going to stay a night or two then there was no reason for CP to build/purchase/expand the hotels and campground.

You cannot really compare the Cedar Point resort with a stand alone park like SFGAdv or even Kings Island. The problem isn't with the non-inclusive Soak City...it is with the lineup of attractions (and lack of family attractions) in the park proper.

Why can't you compare them? Especially when one is pushing families through the gate and the other isn't? It's not just "waterparks", it's keeping track of what works in today's market. Times have changed. Record breaking rollercoasters do not work alone anymore (see SFGadv's *2* family areas).

Cedar Point may be a resort, but it's a resort with 16 rollercoasters. What's everyone else suppose to do? Pay an additional $200 bucks to do the waterparks? Not in today's climate. *** Edited 9/28/2005 8:07:40 PM UTC by DWeaver***

I've said it before and I'll say it again- Cedar Fair misses the boat when it comes to smaller, family-oriented attractions. Darkrides, small flats and even medium-sized wood coasters aren't the most marketable attractions but they do a fine job of getting people in the gates where they are likely to spend a lot of money. Considering that Cedar Fair is going a [GASP] second year without a record-shattering coaster might mean that they finally realize this.

Or at least we can hope.

You can compare the two parks...but you can't compare the overall resort at Cedar Point with a King's Island or other regional park. The strategy at Cedar Point isn't to just get people in the turnstiles.

Cedar Fair wants people to come to Sandusky and stay a couple of days...preferrably in one of THEIR hotels. A second gate helps to promote that concept...particularly when the first gate really requires more than one day anyway.

That said, I also agree that the park itself has done limited things for families in the past decade or so and that might be one of the biggest reasons for their decline.