CP - Force Seat Belts & T Bar Restraints

Well, CP, if you're listening:

You've lost my family's admission and food purchase revenue until this policy is changed. I will not risk paying until I'm relatively sure I can ride your coasters, like I have every year for the past 20 years.

Congrats!

Boy if this policy doesnt change by August I will not be going to CP, breaking a 5 year streak. Thats pathetic that they are doing this.

And whats ironic is that Magnum, which has more forcefull air then MF, has the same loading procedure as always. Those operators kept the trains moving with no stacking at all.

To be clear... I learned that this directive came from Intamin, and by Ohio law they're required to implement it.

That's still an excuse, because I don't think anyone really cares who is responsible when they're a paying customer. The whole issue keeps getting bigger and more out of control. As I said on PointBuzz, it's Intamin with the knee-jerk, and this is a company that clearly is not aware of the operating states of its rides (as demonstrated by the death at SFNE).

Jeff, you are right.

BUT

even though it came from Intamin, no one cares.

it is still ruining people's trips to the park and causing much hurt and disappointment.

maybe Intamin needs to make a trip Stateside to actually LOOK at things and decide on a coaster-to-coaster basis...

i for one will not be returning to CP until THEY find a way to either work around what Intamin says to do or start charging guests of exceptional size less admission because they cant ride everything, much like those who are under 48 inches tall...

not that i'm a guest of exceptional size, but some of my friends ARE....

I'm not exactly small---6', 225. So, this is not another "just get thin" post. However...

It has always been the case that some people could not ride some rides because they are too large (in some dimension) for the restraints. It has never been the case that such people got discounted admission. And frankly, no one much cared.

No one cared, that is, until "normal" people started getting turned away. When it was just that really fat kid, well, that's his problem. Now that it is someone who doesn't look that different from me (or, when it is me or my close friends) it's suddenly a civil rights issue.

As far as I know, we are talking about one roller coaster in a park with plenty more. This is make-or-break for whether the park is worth visiting? If Cedar Point sucked before Millennium went in, then I can see your point. I don't think that's true, though. Furthermore, I suspect that, with time, all this will work itself out once cooler heads prevail.

In the meantime, it's worth it to keep those comment cards headed for the park operations office, in the hopes that either (a) the park can put some pressure on Intamin to change their recommendation or (b) the park can figure out some other way to meet Intamin's guidelines.

Note that it probably helps to have an actual experience to relate, rather than an "I heard that...."

In any event, it sounds like the ride ops need some etiquitte tips post-haste. I understand they have been put in an impossible position, and I understand that they aren't paid well, and that they work very hard. But, if even half of the first-hand accounts are true, there is no excuse for the embarrassment that several paying customers have been put through.

Yeah I was there this week and over the course of 12 rides on MF we saw over 10 people (I lost count) get kicked off, and it was so alarming because many of them were not that fat. I didn't actually see anyone break down because of it, nor did I see anyone put up a fight, but I'm sure they were very torn.

yeah, Brian, for me, it IS make or break with MF. its the only ride that EVERYONE in my group agrees on and can fit into.

apparently, that has changed.

so for me, anyways, no CP until this gets worked out...

You would think that with CP's emphasis on capacity, this new policy would be well posted and the ride ops would be checking at the entrance. I can understand having to follow a new policy, but to let someone (who has probably ridden the ride several times in the past and hasn't changed much from last year) stand in line for an hour or more only to be denied a ride is ridiculous.

I am a large person 6' 3" and about 265# and a 42" waist and I rode MF and TTD May 10 several times without any trouble. Whether or not I had the inch of slack is a different question. Yes CP has a lot to offer, but going to The Point without at least riding MF once or twice would be difficult to swallow. I got used to not riding TTD last year ;)

You really can't blame CP because they are only following the rules made by Intamin and with the way lawsuits go these days, you really can't blame Intamin. Although, they may have hurt themselves. They made this policy change because of the SMROS accident and one could argue in court that their original policy must have been wrong and caused the man to fall from the train. I know it's BS, but a lawyer could get a jury to believe it. *** Edited 5/17/2004 7:51:11 PM UTC by CP ismyhome***

CoasterFanVt2003 -

I completely agree with the weight issue, and the majority of us thin people to look down upon the larger.

That being said, I think I can say, without an overly-analytical view of the science of weight, that someones physical size is half genetics, half lifestyle.

I can put away Pizza, mexican food, and ice cream with the best of them, and will never broche (sp?) the 140lb. barrier. But I am still young.

My sympathies to the larger riders, especially enthusiasts. Hopefull the situation is at least somewhat back to *normal* soon.

-Kenny

I am not sure if it is the CP managers, or the Intamin managers (probably some of both) but they are just being cowards. They know the ride was safe last year and the year before and they are just acting out of fear. They could even use longer belts and still be safe as long as they made sure the lap bar is on the thighs and no higher than the knees. Turning away people who can safely ride in the name of safety does not do anything except make managers who are unsure of themselves feel better.

Last year on MF some belts were tight on me and some had slack. I guess the seat I pick will determine if I can safely ride or if I would be ejected to my death, and I need to be sent packing for my own good.

Brian, the reason it is suddenly an issue isn't because some people are turned away or whatever; that's no different than it has ever been, really.

The real issue here is that an apparently large proportion of people WHO HAVE RIDDEN THE RIDE BEFORE are now being turned away. People who have taken many successful laps on the coaster without incident, people who haven't become any larger, heck, even people who were riding the coaster just *days* ago are now being turned away for absolutely no defensible reason

That's why the CP GR office, the CP Ride Ops office, CoasterBuzz, PointBuzz, and rec.roller-coaster are screaming right now.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

You know, someone died on a coaster with what is belived to be the restraints and the problems with larger riders and them. I'd say that this will last for a week or so more, then get discarded due to time, money, capacity, and consumer complaints. This new problem is reason enough for me to loose some more weight (and I'm not heavy at all, but a little chubby).

I won't comment on the size/weight discrimination issue. However, it is worth noting that the two Intamin Mega Coasters located in Europe, Expedition GeForce and Goliath, operate with strict restrictions regarding rider size/weight. Both rides feature the newer, "more accommodating" curved T-bar, yet the rider restrictions for these coasters are not unlike the rules now in effect at MF.

Case in point:
A few larger ACE members were turned away from EGF at Holiday Park while taking part in ACE's European Coaster Odyssey 2002. These were people who had never previously been refused rides on similar Intamin coasters in the States.

Two questions come to mind. Has Intamin failed to properly communicate the rider restrictions for their Mega/Giga Coasters to American parks? Or, have American parks "bent the rules" regarding Intamin's prescribed rider restrictions?

What's the big deal here?

CP is just enforcing the guidelines set by Intamin & the state following the tragic events at SFNE,sure because of the increased awareness that some guests may not be able to fit properly in the ride the park has gone & made changes to ensure guest safety but because it's CP & not any of the SF parks everyone is in a knot over the fact that they may no longer be able to ride.

I'm sure that once the modifications are made at the three SF parks some people may no longer be able to ride S:ROS as well but there are 15 other coasters at CP(more than most other parks aside from a certain park in LA)for you all to enjoy so instead of complaining about the one coaster you may no longer be able to ride just enjoy the remaining ones that you can.

Bottom line here is that threatening to boycott the park just over one ride or flooding management with complaints over the fact that a select few can no longer ride isn't going to change this policy & the truth be told they don't owe you or anyone else access to every single ride in the park if it is deemed that you don't meet the required safety restrictions for the attraction.

(Also posted at Pointbuzz):

I certainly can't disagree with RideMan about all he's said regarding this policy not making the ride any safer, but ... it seems the reaction of most posters here is CP is doing this just to tick people off. C'mon - does that make any sense? What Jeff suggests rings true - Intamin has sent word down the line, no doubt trying desperately to cover their you-know-whats over the latest "incident".

Chief Wahoo (at Pointbuzz) deserves kudos for noting the role insurance companies play in all this. As I've said several times in the past, they have have far more influence over the day-to-day runnings of an amusement park than people would ever think. Higher insurance premiums (and you can bet rates go up after every accident, even for parks with the safety record of CP) means higher ticket prices. No insurance means no park. Does MF running safely for four years matter that much to CP's insurers? They don't insure for what hasn't happened, but what could happen - and in this case, perception is reality. Three people have died in the past couple of years riding Intamin rides with restraints similar to MF's. I'm sure they're panicking in the boardrooms in Switzerland, and I'm damn sure Cedar Fair's insurers have had long conversations with the People In Charge. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point a discussion didn't take place over whether or not just to shut the rides down indefinately.

Remember, I ain't saying this policy makes sense, and I agree it doesn't seem to be making things any safer for anyone. But, to me, CP's really stuck between the proverbial rock (lawyers/insurance companies/Intamin) and a hard place (paying customers).

I sure don't see an easy way out ...

Another segway, with all the negativity coming off of this incident do you think Intamin is going to sell another hyper in the US with BM and Morgan styles being more accomidating? I dont think so.

Infact I wouldnt be suprized if we see CP get a new "more acomidating" train in the near future (2006-2007).

Well, at the very least I think we can safely assume that we won't see a new Intamin ride at a CedarFair park anytime soon. That's just as well. I really don't think the Intamin guys liked living in Sandusky all that much. :)

I think that the parks will still put out the ride specs and take bids. The lowest bid will get the job, just like now. We may see some new trains or seating from Intamin, but with parks trying to push the envelope with new rides, I think we will see more of Intamin.

BatwingSFA: a couple of points I will make and please don't take this as being hatefull but here goes. This is not an issue of "just because it's CP and not SF". I would put down serious money on the fact that this conversation would be happening no matter what park it was happening at and no matter what chain it ran under. Don't make it about what park your a fanboy of because it's simply not that way.

You talked about people complaining over not being able to ride one certain coaster at the park and to just enjoy the rest of them. Well this is easier said than done. When this particular attraction is one of the main reasons (if not the main reason) to go to the park, then anyone that can't ride it has every right to be a bit "complainy" (is that even a word? ;) ) Speaking from experience, I am holding off my trips to CP because of this policy because MF is my favorite ride there and it's possible I might not fit into it due to this new reg.

We can all agree that this is all a safety issue without a doubt, and it is a major knee-jerk reaction as previously referred to. But the twist in it all is this: what the hell happened to make MF so unsafe all of a sudden? This ride has ran three full seasons without incident or accident following the rules provided by the manufacturer. Now suddenly it's unsafe and they (intamin) decide to make the ride-ops wrench the belts down. It's just a load of horse poop I say.

And finally, I personally believe you are dead wrong about people threatening to boycott the park, complaining ect... These actions are the most direct way of dealing with the situation and that's how things can/will change. If enough people quit going to the park, spending cash in their shops and at the entrance gates, and quit buying season passes they will listen and put Intamin's head on the block where it needs to be anyhow. And if the company takes little if no action, then they have the ultimate boycott power by not buying anymore multi-million dollar coasters/rides from them again.