Continued: Cedar Fair announces Geauga Lake will be water park only

This has probably been said before, but I believe closing GL has more to do with Cedar Fair's *overall* financial picture than GL losing gobs of money.

IMO, they must do something very quickly to fix the huge debt they have - and they probably looked at tons of revenue options at all parks nationwide vs. profits obtained on a per-park basis.

But what is needed immediately isn't a long-term revenue stream - it's a large chunk of cash.

I'd guess it just so happened that GL has the characteristic of mid/poor park performance with the ability to satisfy a large portion of the debt a la a real estate/fire sale. If one or the other weren't true, I don't think this would've happened.

So perhaps GL wasn't earmarked as the sacrificial lamb from the get go, but it was probably inevitable. It's a shame all around.

Raven-Phile said:

eightdotthree said:
What makes anyone think that something that huge could work in that market?...

The idea is cool, but lets face it, its just a pipe dream.

That's funny, because there's already 2 similar areas (minus any rides) within a half hour-45 minutes of the place, and they seem to work very well.


And Aurora Farms is right down the road and seems to be doing okay.

No lack of malls/complexes in NE Ohio.

Great Lakes Brewery Patron...


halltd said:

Jeff said:
Interestingly enough, the local Fox affiliate called me about an interview regarding some of the older rides and the park. As much as I'd enjoy a little attention whoring, I told her that I honestly had no strong opinions about it. She asked if I knew anyone else local, and I told her, no, the people who care the most don't even live in the area.

You run two coaster fan sites and you couldn't come up with ONE person that could say something nice about Geauga Lake that was local? Did you even stop to think about it for a second?

Wow, I can't believe I missed that. Talk about being biased. I respect- and even admire- your unwillingness to speak out about something you don't care about, but why couldn't you steer them in the direction of someone who does care? You have access to dozens of people that would have willingly helped them out, and I'm sure some of them were local to the Cleveland area.

Gemini's avatar

Ensign Smith said:
Well, let's see. We have, I'm guessing, maybe 50 or 60 people over there regularly posting their grief and anger over the closing. Here at Coasterbuzz, which we'll call neutral territory, opinion seems to be close to evenly divided.

So we've got the hardcore enthusiast / park fan base covered. What about everyone else in town? Why has this had so little coverage in the local media? Are they simply part of some Cedar Fair-led conspiracy to squash the overwhelming backlash? Even many of the quotes and comments in the news stories that do exist are from fans and enthusiasts.

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

There's a link to a news broadcast about this in one of the other Geauga Lake threads. It's not like this isn't getting any attention, regardless of who's drawing attention to it.
Jeff's avatar
Hey, I could have jumped on camera and said, "Meh, I don't care," but I didn't. I could crap a golden egg with the key to saving Geauga Lake and curing cancer engraved on it and some of you would still find something wrong with what I do. None of you are active on the site and local. If you were, we'd probably at least know each other by face.

And Walt is right. A bunch of enthusiasts are all bummed out, and taking it to Disney rat-like proportions. Is that representative of Northeast Ohioans? Obviously not, because they weren't going to the park en masse in the first place.

Captain Hawkeye said:
But that doesn't change CF's bottom line--the costs of those coasters are still on CF's books.
Only at another park, it could act as a shot in the arm for attendance. That was my point.

Jeff - Editor - - My Blog - Phrazy

Ensign isn't local and active on the site?
Gemini's avatar

Rob Ascough said:
There's a link to a news broadcast about this in one of the other Geauga Lake threads.

I didn't say there were no stories. However, reaction from the public-at-large is only a fraction of what enthusiasts think it is, and the amount of coverage from local media reflects that.

Don't get me wrong, I would not expect anything else but an emotional response from park fans. I have no problem with that. I can appreciate it and understand it. But if you try to convince me there's some city-wide outrage, I'm going to question that.

*** Edited 9/25/2007 1:54:22 PM UTC by Gemini***

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

Jeff said:
I could crap a golden egg with the key to saving Geauga Lake and curing cancer engraved on it and some of you would still find something wrong with what I do.

I forgot... we're making it all about you again, aren't we?

And Walt is right. A bunch of enthusiasts are all bummed out, and taking it to Disney rat-like proportions.

This current conversation has nothing to do with a bunch of bummed enthusiasts complaining out of heartache. Things are coming into the picture that are clearly suggesting there are problems with practically everything about this announcement. The wrongful laying off of employees, the peculiar stock purchase, the b.s. line about this decision having been made when it was obvious to many people this was the way it was all going to go down... you can't actually be serious that this is just a bunch of enthusiast whining anymore?

Of course, you also have to bear in mind that journalists may choose to go 'fishing' for a in, let's find Person X or Person Y to express Emotion Z on camera. Fifteen seconds of that would sound good right about here...

Your local news yokels are in the business of selling advertising. To do that, they have to keep people watching their station. So a story that 'Geauga Lake closes, nobody gives a rip' or a segment with some yokel complaining that there were too many fugly bumpkins and thugs in the park won't keep you watching 'till the Mentos commercial. Or get them much CF advertising next summer.

Not to say I'm enamored with much of anything CF has done in the last few months. But that doesn't make the above any less true.


NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.

Gemini's avatar

Rob Ascough said:
This current conversation has nothing to do with a bunch of bummed enthusiasts complaining out of heartache.

'A bunch of bummed enthusiasts creating conspiracy theories out of heartache,' might be more accurate.

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

So you're suggesting that everything that people find foul about this should just be dismissed? If I ever break the law and need some legal representation, I hope you freelance as a lawyer.
Gemini's avatar
Are you saying people here aren't thinking with their hearts, but are actually thinking with a clear mind? Or that it isn't reasonable to say that emotional involvment might impact rational thought, no matter the topic?

Why are the people who are finding something foul about this the same people who are devastated that it closed?

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

I'm not devastated that it is closing. I never really liked the park in the first place. I LOVED Sea World though.

All of you guys talk about pure business decisions, but then totally overlook the possibility that this was a well laid plan. If they are able to sell the land to a developer for a golf course community or some other use, they're bound to make a pretty penny for the land. Add to that the rides they can inject into their other parks and you've got a really nice deal. That doesn't sound like a "failure" to me.

Of course there's a connection between it all and it makes perfect sense that the people crying foul are the same people that are emotional about this decision. Then again, why would those that have been supporting Cedar Fair's decision since it was first announced want to admit that the other side has a valid point? People are going to debate with information that supports their feelings. That doesn't mean they're just making up a bunch of stuff.
^Yes,in a way it does Rob.

Why aren't we calling for Keiren Burke to be lynched for the closure of SFAW & making accusations against him that he planned SFAW's demise from the start of the 05 season just to make a windfall on the real estate costs huh?That's what it sounds like people are doing in this situation with GL what with all the conspiracies going around ranging from "Ohh they just wanted to eliminate CP's competition" conspiracy to the more ridiculous "Dick Kinzel was involved in an insider trading scheme to get rich quick" conspiracy.

One question. If Cedar Fair REALLY wanted to "eliminate CP's competition", why isn't King's Island closing?

Because King's Island is making money.

Gemini's avatar
I have not questioned every point "the other side" has made, but there have been a few things that have set off my common sense alarm. I really believe that if Jeff did a podcast with Dick Kinzel and every member of the Board of Directors to explain everything that happened since the park was purchased, some of you would blow it off as lies.

Emotional reactions tend to produce conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories tend to be based on a few facts or a segment of data, while ignoring other many other factors.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, no matter the subject. Maybe that's why I can't see the other side here.

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

What is with this insistence on bringing Astroworld into the conversation, Batwing? Parallels or no parallels, that's said and done while this is happening now. My guess is that more people care about the closing of Geauga Lake than the cared about the closing of Astroworld and that is why so much attention is being focused on this situation.

If you want to mention Astroworld in this conversation, show me where Burke purchased a bunch of stock before the park was closed. I don't think it happened. In fact, isn't that when Red Zone started buying up large portions of the company. If so, there is no reason to mention Astroworld anymore.

*** Edited 9/25/2007 2:57:42 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

^^^ It's also in a different market.

Has it been shown anywhere that Geauga Lake truly was LOSING money? Or, was it just not making enough for them to want it anymore?

Why not sell the ride side as a park or at least entertain that notion? Wasn't Kennywood interested in buying it? *** Edited 9/25/2007 2:57:50 PM UTC by halltd***

Closed topic.

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