Classism and park demographics: whither the credit whore?
This is true on the single-day admission, true, but note the season pass price didn't change. That's where I think most would agree that Six Flags made a mistake in giving away their season passes. $50 is too low of a price, and everyone from Cedar Point on down to Holiday World gets that. It does in fact discourage daily admission at all because you "might as well" buy the season pass.
Brian Noble said:
This year, that conventional wisdom has been turned on its head. Cedar Point surveyed their guests, and found that their guest median income was rising much faster than the median income of their local market. Their conclustion: they were pricing themselves out of their market.
Six Flags is going insanely high with single-day admission, and at least it sounds like they're going in the right direction for passes. What bothers me is that I doubt they've done the market research in this short time to find out what the market will bare. That's a little scary.
But in terms of classism, I won't go as far as to say it's a bad thing, and I know it happens. It's no different from any other business where there's a lot of money to be had (think casinos). You spend a lot of money, they want you there. The trick is giving you a sense of value that you get what you pay for. Most amusement parks haven't been doing that well.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Charles Nungester said:
Who buys Disney or universal guides?They ususally send us DVD's and trip packages for free!
Chuck, who actually considers it nice junk mail.
It is nice junk mail. But they don't tell you the details that a $20 guidebook does. Things like:
- tips to reduce queue time (saving 2.5-3 hours on a typical day where Disney lines averaged 45-60 minutes)
- transportation advice (how to avoid traffic jams on International Drive, when to drive or take a cab instead of using Disney Transportation)
- restaurant reviews (I've found guidebooks +90% accurate, which means I know what to expect and I've made reservations if necessary)
- resort reviews (is that on-line deal great, or is it a hole-in-the-wall?)
I must admit that I'm a coaster-commando geek who spends dozens of hours planning out multi-day roller coaster vacations. My planning is a bit extreme, but I'm always shocked by those who do virtually no planning before tackling a major theme park. If ignorance is bliss, I've met some really happy people at theme parks.
- I heard proud parents brag about taking their two kids to Magic Kingdom for 8 hours and accomplished a parade, Dumbo, Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh. They had a great time, but they couldn't understand how our group accomplished so much more. We spent 10 hours in the park on the same day and experienced Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Pirates of the Caribean, Jungle Cruise, Dumbo, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Alien Encounter, and Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, as well as stopping for a full-service restaurant meal.
- I've watched in awe as thousands of locals paid full-price at Cedar Point. I thought that everyone who lived in the area knew that if you request a guidebook, CP mails coupons worth at least $6 on any day admission.
- We rode Nitro at Six Flags Great Adventure with a couple locals who go to the park about six times per year. They waited 2.5 hours in the standby line while my wife and I waited only 40 minutes with a Gold Q-bot. The locals asked us, "What's the deal with that Q-bot thing anyway?"
- I've watched the early morning rush for front-of-park attractions like Raptor at CP and Spaceship Earth at EPCOT, both of which are walk-ons later in the day.
So what if it's a park like SFOT, a park I may never visit again? Your damn right that I'm going to buy that Titan t-shirt and maybe a ride photo (which I did), because who knows when the hell I'll ever be back in Texas again.
Good luck finding that Titan t-shirt! I tried last summer and there were none to be had! I tried desperatley to give Six Flags my money last summer and had no luck finding coaster or park specific t-shirts.
SFNO - Mega Zeph, SFFT - only an ugly white Krypton coaster shirt, SFOT - Titan or Mr. Freeze.
I only hope SFOG has some cool Goliath shirts this year
coaster_dad
Fortunately, I got one of those Gotnophobia T-shirts and a TX Cyclone keychain, on top of a hefty collection of park maps.
13 Boomerang, 9 SLC, and 8 B-TR clones
greatwhitenorth said:
- I heard proud parents brag about taking their two kids to Magic Kingdom for 8 hours and accomplished a parade, Dumbo, Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh. They had a great time, but they couldn't understand how our group accomplished so much more. We spent 10 hours in the park on the same day and experienced Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Pirates of the Caribean, Jungle Cruise, Dumbo, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Alien Encounter, and Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, as well as stopping for a full-service restaurant meal.
- I've watched in awe as thousands of locals paid full-price at Cedar Point. I thought that everyone who lived in the area knew that if you request a guidebook, CP mails coupons worth at least $6 on any day admission.
- We rode Nitro at Six Flags Great Adventure with a couple locals who go to the park about six times per year. They waited 2.5 hours in the standby line while my wife and I waited only 40 minutes with a Gold Q-bot. The locals asked us, "What's the deal with that Q-bot thing anyway?"
- I've watched the early morning rush for front-of-park attractions like Raptor at CP and Spaceship Earth at EPCOT, both of which are walk-ons later in the day.
Perfect examples of how the GP just sort of deals with it, doesn't expect much and are not comparable to enthusiasts in general.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764566040/102-0432887-6778539?v=glance&n=283155
While certainly a small percentage of Disney’s attendance…not an insignificant amount. I’m not sure if somebody who buys the book is considered an enthusiast or not…but there are indeed a lot of people interested in Disney and doing it right. I cannot imagine Disney would find it fruitful to piss off this bunch. This says nothing of the Vacation Club owners, etc who can play the game with the best.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say Gonch…and certainly am not naïve to think the hard-core coaster enthusiast has too much clout. I do think, that at least in the case of Disney…there is a lot of money made off of hard-core repeat guests! I should know as I could probably be near retirement now had I invested all the money I’ve spent on the Mouse the last 20 years… :-)
P.S. I think Jeff's perceived value argument is right on. There is many a cheap carnival where people have a good time becuase the value for what they pay is worth it! Disney and Universal are on the other end. As for Six Flags Magic Mountain...I don't "get it." I did not perceive value at $20 with a Coke can. I know I'm not the usual guest...but I still have a hard time thinking there will be a perceive value at $60/day! Maybe they are really rolling out the red carpet this year which would change my opinion!? *** Edited 1/23/2006 11:49:15 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
They count just like enthusiasts. ;)
In most cases they're even more knowledgeable and fanatic about Disney than coaster enthusiasts are about coasters.
...in case somebody had the wrong image of me! :-)
I've got Joker's Jinx and Two-Face the Flip side t-shirts also, which I think are fairly rare.
As of 2003 “The Unofficial Guide to Disney” had sold over 4 million!
I can't find that stat on that page. However, Frommers claims that the entire series, not just UG/WDW, has sold more than 3M copies. An author of the New Orleans UG says in her promo copy that the series (not just UG/WDW) has sold 4M. I would expect that WDW has sold more than most of the rest of them, but, it would appear that not all of the copies are UG/WDW. But, even if it's remotely correct, UG has been publishing since 1984.
Compare that to the MK which alone is pulling down ~15M turnstile clicks.
Every year.
My brother has my copies of the two Disney Guides at the moment, but it is precisely the Unofficial Guide authors (I believe in the Disneyland '04 edition) who claim that almost no one who visits Disney buys guide books, and they back it up with a number that I can't quote because I don't have the books. It is their answer to the question "if you publish these touring plans, won't everyone follow them, making them useless?"
(I do not have an engraved Guest of Honor badge, embroidered mouse ears, or a pin trading lanyard, in case anyone gets the wrong idea about *me* either. But, I do know what they are. ;))
Michael Darling said:
As a Disney enthusiast I can say that, yes, Disney Fans are more rabid than even your gravy-stuffed ACEr.
And critical. Jeez, I had a conversation with one a few weeks ago and you'd a thought the world was caving in. He was critical of everything and everyone surrounding Disney, yet still goes on an almost weekly basis. ;)
Enthusiasts are the same but to a much lessor extent. They love to brag how they don't go to Six Flags anymore because it SuXoRs so bad. I wish I could buy that, but I don't. lol
As for Six Flags, alot of these price changes do seem to be putting the cart before the horse, but one could also argue that these decisions simply could not wait. They have to generate revenue and eliminate the "non-spending teen" factor as quickly as possible. I just hope on the other end of this, there are some major improvements as the patience of the so called "GP" seems to be running thin.
DWeaver:
I complain about Disney a lot...I still go every chance I get!
I complain about Six flags a lot...I have not gone in 2 years!
Conclusion: I complain way too much and Six Flags sucks! :-)
Cause if you live near Los Angeles, then you are one of the few people I'll believe. Because who wouldn't go to Disneyland, and I don't go to SFMM much either.
But if I lived near SFOT, SFGAM, SFNE(mmm..Superman)... um, yeah you get the point. ;) *** Edited 1/24/2006 2:16:34 AM UTC by DWeaver***
A lot for me...is probably just the aging process. I used to love hard core coaster thrills so the mega parks were my thing! Now days I've got a 22 month old and I prefer Disney and Universal (not that I did not go there a lot anyhow).
However...this wood lover would rather be at Knoebels, HW, Dells, an every other place us woodie lovers prefer if I did not have a wife and child! :-)
P.S. I'm a stubborn old grump by nature who boycotted Wallmart and Best Buy for reasons I can't even remember for at least 6 years! I'm probably a bad example for the regular enthusiast. If Holiday World ever pissed me off (not that they ever could) like SFMM...I'd leave them too and not lose too much sleep. I like Scuba diving, politics and football as much as coasters...so there is always another place for me!
If I could I'd live 10 minutes away from Lake Compounce, my absolute favorite non-Disney park on the face of the earth. Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy too. But then, I was old and grumpy at 12. ;)
I've been to SFA, which is about 4 or 5 hours away also, 3 times in the past 10 years. Same reasons.
SFWoA...LOL! Twice I think. That was in the first season when I was working at CP which is about an hour away. I never had the desire to go again after the "incident" of the girl at the guest service window being rude with me.
I couldn't afford the long drives to visit SF parks even with a season pass. I determined that it was a much better value and way more fun to visit other parks (CP, KW, PKI, PKD, BGW, HP, Knoebels, ect.), so SF didn't get me in their gates as much as they could have.
...And now that the prices are skyrocketing, I see me going even less.
...click on the book to enlarge the cover picture! They advertise it on their cover!
Now I see it. But it does say "the series" which (based on other advertising copy) I take to mean "unofficial guide" not "ug/wdw". Still a drop in the bucket compared to annual attendance, by their own admission.
P.S. I'm a stubborn old grump by nature who boycotted Wallmart and Best Buy for reasons I can't even remember for at least 6 years! I'm probably a bad example for the regular enthusiast.
So does that make you a "malcontent"? You'd have to fire yourself from your own company! ;)
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