Cedar Point's Record Breaker?

Friday, October 8, 2004 1:11 PM
Ever since the announcement of Dick Kinzel's retirement in 2007, people have talked about Cedar Point building a recod breaking coaster that year. Presumably, they think Cedar Point will go over 500 feet. With the addition of Kingda Ka, enthusiasts seem to think that Cedar Point will definitely do this to gain their record back.
I am one of the people who would not mind seeing that done, but I can't even think how it is even possible. I don't think there is a ride ready to be built yet that is 500 feet tall. CP already has an Intamin rocket. I would think that another Intamin rocket and all other rocket coasters are out of the question. Thy would have to go back to a conventional lift. I am wondering which company do you think would build this new record breaking coaster? B&M? S&S? I am just wondering what people think. What company and what kind of coaster could make a 500 foot coaster possible, at Cedar Point or elsewhere?
Friday, October 8, 2004 1:18 PM
It's crazy to think about, but as I've heard around the campfire, Cedar Point may actually be considering a 500 footer. And I happened upon this info far before all the Kingda Ka hype, so don't think it is just something a fanboy made up.

Intamin has made the claim that the lift support system used on MF could be used up to 750 feet. B&M's price tag for such a ride would be ridiculously huge. I think that their bid was something like ~30 million for when Cedar Point built MF. We really haven't seen S&S do much with their thrust air line since Dodonpa, but they did buy the 4-D technology which they are still improving.

It seems like the only thing the park could do with a ride with such extreme height that hasn't been done yet is to build a coaster with 4-D style cars. Don't get too excited though because this is just speculation. It fun to think about though because the ride would be un-freaking-believable.

*** Edited 10/8/2004 5:30:28 PM UTC by CPgenius***

Friday, October 8, 2004 1:24 PM
I wonder if they could use LIMs or Hydrdaulics to push you halfway up a conventional lift hill? That would save some time regarding capacity. Of course if they didn't do that they could have two trains climbing the hill together like SD2K. It is an interesting question to ponder since they've already done the rocket thing.
Friday, October 8, 2004 1:36 PM
its a 500' Euro Fighter!
Friday, October 8, 2004 1:37 PM
Don't they use LIMs to propel the trains up the lifts of California Screamin'?

Actually, that would probably the best way to set up a lift that's that high because it really limits the amount of moving parts. Could they withstand the harsh winters without sustaining damage though?

Friday, October 8, 2004 1:42 PM
LIM's would be fine. They're all over the place in worse climates than CP's.

Limiting moving parts isn't the only concern. LIM's (especially that many) are much more expensive than a cable or chain lift system. Reliability with that many LIM's becomes a big issue as well.

I'm not going to say it's not going to happen, but seriously, it's 3 years in the future. How can anyone make a reasonable guess at all?

Friday, October 8, 2004 2:00 PM
Doubt it height records in CP has got overdone. I say they will build a record breaking looper, or flyer. It would make much sence because TTD got attention but it died down fast. Especially after the second gen one in NJ was announced and got press in every media outlet around. Save the money, space, and time, and build a coaster that would break the inversion record, or something else. We see what DP is doing with their Floorless,CP could build a taller one and have around 12 inversions, and people would I bet much rather that than seeing another record breaker.
Besides I think that is the heighest SF's would go in terms of height and speed, I think they are smart in that. Whats left is prototypes and variations of other rides because their line up is on point. I wouldn't be shocked if CP added a record breaker for their ego boost though.
Friday, October 8, 2004 2:08 PM
Giga-looper. CP breaks height records and then doesn't revisit them for improvements (ie: hyper but no hyper looper, giga but no giga looper) I would like to see a hyper or giga looper that has a long ride time and is smooth like raptor used to be. Something with record breaking inversions would be nice however something with a +2.5 minute ride time would be do. You spend all day in line a CP and are on the rides for what 15 minutes? Don't get me wrong I love the park, but the short rides just are not fun after a few dozen rides. *** Edited 10/8/2004 6:09:15 PM UTC by ldiesman***
Friday, October 8, 2004 2:14 PM
500 feet: couldn't they just add 100 feet to TTD, retool the launch system? the train systems might need some overhauling, but it might be possible...
Friday, October 8, 2004 2:28 PM
Well, i'm glad that bits and pieces of 5 other threads have been recycled into this one.

1) Intamin has stated that MF's lift structure, could proportionately reach heights of over 700 feet. (770 if I remember correctly)

2) We never expected to be hitting 400 feet, and look what happened. A new type of ride never seen before that did just that. Who knows what the future holds.

and Scooter.. no. no.no.no.no!!

You cannot just take it apart like a K'nex set. That would require HUGE amounts of restructuring and retooling.

(nothing personal there Scoot, dont take that the wrong way, but you arent the first person to ask if that could be done, and not the first time anyone on these boards has had to explain it.)

It just cannot be switched around like that. TTD only uses a fraction of that 10,000hp engine anyways. If this is accurate info, Xcelerator was testing at over 100mph before Dragster was announced, and Xcelerator has an engine thats... what? 2,000hp? (im rusty on my KBF knowledge)

The engine wouldnt be there problem, necessarily, but you need a longer launch track, reconfiguring the twist on the upward slope, reconfiguring the spiral down, not to mention needing another couple layes of supports, and in doing that, needing to reinforce the bottom layes of supports with thicker grade steel beams. *** Edited 10/8/2004 6:31:25 PM UTC by MForce2k***

Friday, October 8, 2004 2:30 PM

The trains can barely make it over the top as it is, and the launch accelerates it about as fast as possible on ANY coaster. If it were to be done then the entire tower would need to be moved back to add extra launch track. It ain't gonna happen.

I'm more curious to see if they will make a giant Millennium Force when they go for 500 feet or if it will be launched of some kind or have special cars, like the 4d or something

Friday, October 8, 2004 2:38 PM
I'd like to take credit for the current mass of people thinking that it's possible to just add an extra 100' to TTD - I'll just say it came from my "they're going to take 200' off of it" rumor ;)

Seriously though, I wonder if maybe they'd try and install more than one in a year? Maybe install a mid-sized, but still fun floorless and a flyer? Or a flyer and 4-D? Some combination of rides. That's the only "bang" I see outside of 500' or more.

Inversion record doesn't seem like something that's Cedar Point's style though. They have the largest collection of operating coasters anywhere, and yet there's what ... 6 + 3 + 4, 13 inversions in the whole park? SFGAdv has that many inversions on one side of the park!

2 years until the announcement is too long to start rumor-mongering. I enjoy thinking of the possibilities, but right now it's so far away the debate would get stale before next season even starts. Come back to it in March '06 and we'll talk ;) (since footers for a 700'er would probably have to start then!)

Friday, October 8, 2004 2:49 PM
The mention of K'Nex and then of launch coasters made me think of the standard design (on the box cover, etc) of the Rippin' rocket. Look how you have the two launches on Volcano. What about doing two launches, one at the start and one mid-lift, to get you to a record breaking height, which assists with the record breaking speed on the decent.

I personally do not need another rocket coaster at CP, so a bigger badder TTD is not necessary for me. I would tend to agree with ROS about a giant MF. Could there be a possible push for a coaster that is bigger and faster, with more inversions perhaps (the GP loves going upside down).

I know that some think that the age of the flying coasters will end like that of the stand-ups, but that's a possibility as well. Perhaps we could see the tallest, fastest, flying coaster.

I'm still for the giant MF though, with better fitting restraints ;)

Friday, October 8, 2004 2:52 PM
Hot air balloon lift anyone? ;)
Friday, October 8, 2004 3:08 PM

Impulse-ive said:

Inversion record doesn't seem like something that's Cedar Point's style though. They have the largest collection of operating coasters anywhere, and yet there's what ... 6 + 3 + 4, 13 inversions in the whole park?

Good point. I remember thinking it weird that, up until Raptor came along, CP had only one inversion coaster when most had three or four. Inversions have never been CP's thing.

I like the idea of multiple installations in one year, although I'd think a major coaster, coupled with one or two smaller steel coasters (a Wild Mouse, Crazy Mouse, Maurer-Sohne spinning coaster, Euro-fighter or Vekoma Booster Bike all sound good) and some flat rides would be unbeatable. Of course, I'd toss a mid-sized wood coaster in there, but that's just me!

Friday, October 8, 2004 3:43 PM

janfrederick said:Hot air balloon lift anyone?

Sounds good to me. Slow, but think of the VIEW... :)

Friday, October 8, 2004 3:48 PM
They just need to build a runway and give rides on a SpaceShipOne. Screw Rollercoasters ;)
Friday, October 8, 2004 3:52 PM
Apparently some of you have never met Kinzel, because this guy is about as far from ego-driven as they come. Some idiot from the Sandusky Register said in an editorial that he'd go out with something big. It was not a fact, just senseless speculation by someone that doesn't know the guy.

Besides, we have threads on this every other week, and it's still not interesting.

Friday, October 8, 2004 3:52 PM
I'm guessing that would be an upcharge attraction?
Friday, October 8, 2004 3:55 PM

Apparently some of you have never met Kinzel, because this guy is about as far from ego-driven as they come.

Well, aside from that - would he (or anyone in that position) really just say, "Screw it! I don't care what needs to be done - I'm doing what I want to do! Let's build something huge and make sure I leave this place with everyone remembering me!"

The idea alone is ridiculous if you really think about it.

*** Edited 10/8/2004 7:57:38 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***


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