Cedar Point announces that Mantis will be "squashed"

So now B+Ms *aren't* designed around a theoretical heartline?

But I saw it on TV...

I was just reading an interesting article about things repeated sufficiently often becoming "true". And, yes, I've been dancing the heartline dance because I'd read about it in so many places.

for those talking about the heartline being wrong, check this out. I did my best to try to scale these the same.
http://i.imgur.com/jJxcOs8.gif

...I'd say its pretty darn close.

The coaster is staying, it's going to have floorless cars and believe the paint will be gray and green or teal

Why do I get the impression that if Walter Bolliger and Claude Mabillard came on here themselves and and said this "heartline issue" is a non-issue with re-inventing Mantis, the debate would still rage on?

I find it interesting that the conversation hasn't really evolved to discuss the difference between Kinzel's leadership and that of Ouimet in the regard of investing in older product to make it "new" again. Never in a million years was this concept on Kinzel's radar yet Ouimet fully seems to embrace it where appropriate. I think a lot of employees and fans have been asking for this for years.

DavidW said:

for those talking about the heartline being wrong, check this out. I did my best to try to scale these the same.
http://i.imgur.com/jJxcOs8.gif

I think I just had a seizure!

^^

That might quiet the debate here (on Coasterbuzz), but Pointbuzz would be a different story. In 1.5 days they have 19 pages of "discussion" on the Mantis removal or transformation topic, not to mention the 100+ pages of previous 2015 speculation.

mlnem4s said:

I find it interesting that the conversation hasn't really evolved to discuss the difference between Kinzel's leadership and that of Ouimet in the regard of investing in older product to make it "new" again. Never in a million years was this concept on Kinzel's radar yet Ouimet fully seems to embrace it where appropriate.

Kinzel did it in 1990 with Avalanche Run / Disaster Transport. Didn't work out so well.

The whole argument about differences in heartline is inconsequential. Gees are not only determined by the radius of spin--the distance between a rider's heart and the center of the circle being proscribed--but also by the speed at which the train negotiates the circle (or part thereof). Any miniscule difference in gees between Mantis's current incarnation and a hypothetical transformation into a floorless is mere noise when compared to the significantly slower speed the coaster travels, thanks to that first drop trim. It's simply not an issue.

Mostly, our heads are going to explode, our hearts will stop, our limbs will turn black and die, our organs will fail and our bodies will turn inside out.

Ride if you must, but if they put any kind of sitdown train on that track, you won't get me anywhere near the death machine!

Heartline, mofos!

*drops mic*

<crickets>

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some new B&M train style. At a minimum I hope it has the new vest restraints.

I also wonder if they will try to run 3 trains again if they do convert it. I believe seat belts were added after Mantis opened, which didn't help with the somewhat stingy stand-up restraints.

MagnumsRevenge said:

We were debating this in 2002...

I'm imagining the Cedar Point team laughing off the idea of new trains for 10 years. Then one day someone sheepishly brings it up.

What?! It's not that crazy of an idea... right?

rollergator said:

^B&M is designing a sit-down coaster with thrones?

"Last stand" just SCREAMS....conversion. I wouldn't buy any other theory unless it came directly from CF/CP...

I've been hanging out on Pointbuzz lately, but I have to agree with you 100%. We'll have to see how things go though. :)

I never understood the heartline theory. Unless each car has one seat dead center of the chassis, no one on the train is being rotated around their heartline.

I view coasterbuzz as a college coaster board and pointbuzz as a middle school coaster board. Though some of the discussions there can be entertaining.

Why do they need new trains? Can't they just replace the standup parts with seats? A paint job and a new name and its ready for opening day!

I would think it's because of the restraint system. The B&M stand-ups have 2 separate locking mechanisms for seat height and OSTRs. The control system would likely need to be replaced for it to work.

In my experience, B&M stand-up operators are always pushing a ton of buttons on the panel due to needing to get each individual row of the train to lock correctly for dispatch.

One reason you might not want to reuse the same chassis (supposing you could, which I doubt), is new trains could open up the door for magnetic braking. In the long run, that saves a substantial amount of money on brass brake pads.

With that said, I have no idea how much money it would cost to replace the current friction brakes. Without having those numbers, it's hard say if it makes financial sense.

I haven't been on that thing in years, but as I recall, the restraint release works by row using a push bar under the track, off to the side. It has nothing to do with the modern versions of any of their trains, but I don't know if that matters. If you go to the newer hydraulic system that needs power to release, that's a matter of adding the electrical bus pieces on the track. Can they just bolt new seats onto them? Beats me.

I think if cost were no object, I would do new trains and reconfigure the ending with a downward slope and magnetic brakes. That seems to be the most efficient and require the least amount of maintenance.

Six Flags marketed turning Freeze and B:TR backwards in multiple parks in multiple years. I will never say never when it comes to what the marketing dept. will count as a "new" ride.