Cedar Point announces that Mantis will be "squashed"

I can see the need to re-profile if you were put further away from the center of gravity but not closer. There would be less rotational force with a sit down than a stand up. It wouldn't exactly be heartline but I don;t think it necessarily needs to be. The transitions are pretty violent as it is now with the standup trains.

I dunno, they could re-profile but I am not betting on it.

I think the coaster will stay the same as it is, save for a new name and paint job, and the trains will be standard B&M four across trains complete with floor. Voila. No change to the station required.
If the heart line is a concern, (and I'm not sure the line was in the right place to begin with), I suppose the trains could be modified to make the seats an inch or two taller or whatever is required.

Really, I'm not sure where this notion that it absolutely has to be a floorless came from. With a simple switch out of the trains the park can market a "new" ride, and with whatever else is coming have a couple of things to talk about next season with minimal expense and construction on this ride. Everything about this no-announcement announcement points to something simple here. Otherwise I bet they'd be saying more already.

The heartline difference between a standup and floorless train are not that different... With a standup, the floor is very close to the running rails.

With a floorless, the seat itself is elevated quite high above the rails so your legs have clearance over the track for obvious reasons. The torso of a person standing on a standup train versus the same person sitting on a floorless train are very close.

I don't buy the whole heartline difference one bit, myself. I think they will work just fine as-is.

How many times have we seen people get on a stand-up train and then push the seat down, sit, and secure the restraints? Some parks make sure you're standing, others not so much. Clearly if it was such a big deal to keep CoG within such confined limits, B&M would put a lower bound on how far down the seats go. Since they don't, I'm in the camp of those who believe nothing will change other than the train replacement with a standard train...along with a color change and a new name.

The few times I have sneakily snagged a sitting ride on Mantis it is a way more enjoyable experience.

That, and everyone's heart line is different when they stand- more so than when they are sitting in a chair and their leg length makes no difference. Or take a look at wing coasters, where the heartline follows a different path on either side of the train.

I can't believe we are still debating this after all these years.

We were debating this in 2002...

Everyone keeps talking floorless, floorless...does anyone realize how nicely Kumba style trains would work without a need to revamp the station or other areas of the ride to load/unload passengers? Just sayin'! ;)

What all needs to be done to accommodate a new type of train? Would it only be station work?

My prediction: Floorless. King James. New color scheme. They'll find a way to make the heartline difference work, either through taller trains or track reprofile. If there even IS a heartline difference, which I doubt.

I'm OK with being wrong, though.

I don't understand how this heartline thing festered into a factually identified challenge.

Vater said:

I'm casting my prediction now: 3-bench PTCs.

Pfff... whatever.

Everyone knows they're getting the Timberliners meant for Voyage.

Where's the fun in those, with their individual confining lapbars? I'm talking old school, low-back seats and single "buzz" bars with no seat belts. Mark my words, by the end of 2015 Mantis is gonna be an ACE Coaster Classic.

Well since B&M Designed the spine for the loop of SOB, I think they're just taking the steel track off and putting wood on it. Probably a Gen II B&M wood train as well.

I figured it would be Susquehanna Valley Coasters coming in to reprofile the ride and install a multi-layer laminated wood track...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

hambone said:

...and sending the coaster planned for 2016 to Dorney, which will send Stinger to Valleyfair in a maintenance dump.

The best part is, Stinger was initially going to be Cedar Point's 2016 coaster.

Maybe it will have one stand-up and one sitdown train on the same track, like Momonga or Star Jet.

mlnem4s said:

Everyone keeps talking floorless, floorless...does anyone realize how nicely Kumba style trains would work without a need to revamp the station or other areas of the ride to load/unload passengers? Just sayin'! ;)

They would, but I don't see that happening at Cedar Point because in my opinion it would be a disappointment for a new attraction that won't really excite people that much. Mantis has been at CP for 18 years, millions have ridden it. Is it really that marketable to say that you can ride the same ride you've ridden all these years, you can just ride it sitting down now? Big deal, stand-up, sit-down, it's still the same layout. Make it sit-down and you of course lose the stand-up gimmick that I think adds a bit of a thrill.

Now, move the ride to another park and convert it to a sit-down and you have a highly marketable new attraction for that park that most guests have not ridden before. Much better use of the ride in my opinion. And, CP will replace the ride with something great that is truly new and marketable.

I would love to see a hybrid dark ride/coaster in that spot. Perhaps something along the lines of Journey to Atlantis, with or without water elements.

Jeff said:

I don't understand how this heartline thing festered into a factually identified challenge.

Probably the same way SOB's wider than normal track gauge and things like that get perpetuated. Once something gets stated enough times, it becomes truth even though nobody can trace it back to a valid source. I was guilty of that one myself actually.