Cedar fairs obsessionn with Cedar Point

Mamba - WOF hyper #4

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Cheeseburger Cheeseburger Cheeseburger
"Welcome to Millennium Force"

AS my homepark is Knotts I guess I should put my 2 cents in on this! Actually I work there also.... ANyway, I first want to clear up the misconception in several of the above posts that Cedar Fair is being good to Knotts because they added Ghostrider. Not true. The Knott Family bought Ghostrider as their going away present to Cedar Fair. THe Knott family is responsible for that not Cedar Fair. But Cedar fair is good to Knotts because they added Supreme Scream and Perilous Plunge. Those are just fairly minor additions but it seems that we will get something cool next year, whatever it may be. Everything seems to point to a big new coaster for next summer, so I am going to wait and evaluate Cedar Fair until after they announce whatever that new ride may be. As for Dorney Park, it seems that they are well off with Talon. Valleyfair I am not so sure about, but I am sure they are not forgotten. ANyway, see you at the farm!
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Home Park: Knotts Berry Farm!
but also Disneyland and DCA

Actually all their parks but Knotts have hypers: Steel Force,Wild thing, Mamba,Magnum

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Whats Life If You Never Po!nt

Actually coasterfanmat, Cedar Fair had the opportunity to cancel Ghostrider and almost did from what I hear. Though Ghostrider was a gift to the park's loyal fans, I still consider it a Cedar Fair creation. They oversaw the building of it, and maintain it excellently every year. Next up, Knott's will build the best steel coaster on the planet. ;)

I read the 2000 Cedar Fair L.P. annual report and they said that they almost had a record year at WoF with like 1.2 million when Mamba debut? OH PLEASE. And you guys are complaining why they aren't getting anything and that CF is being 'unfair' and neglecting parks other than their flagship Cedar Point. Do you really think profits would have been made if they had brought $25 million Millenium Force to a non metropolitan area such as Kansas City where the most guests that would enter the gates would be only $1.2 million AT THE MOST? C'mon Knott's brings in an average of 3.5 million guests a year and Cedar Point with about 3 million. THAT my friends is what they call SMART finance decisions. If CF had thrown Millenium Force, Magnum XL-200, Raptor, and Mantis into WoF or Valleyfair!, they would have had filed for bankruptcy 10 years ago! Think people! It's common sense! It's not about distributing coasters like most people find as a fantasy, but big bucks are thrown into coasters and they can't just be built like candy houses.

I call it the "too much RCT" syndrome.

Agent Johnson, you are my hero. Very well put, intelligent post!

-Natalie
Awake at 4:45 for God knows what reason...and in awe.

Cedar Fair still tends to the whim of every geust, which is the cause for 2 things: a) they only have 5 parks, b)only 2 of their parks have inverted coasters. I really dont like how CF concentrates on CP. Why not let all the CF parks become worldwide destinations?

I agree with Kraxleridah and Agent Johnson. Whats the point in putting in a 20 million dollar ride in a park that brings in only 1.5 million guests. Cedar Fair would lose more than gain. Just my opinion.

Cedar Fair is not a "chain" of parks like Six Flags. It is a "limited partnership", hence the name: Cedar Fair, L.P. My understanding is that it's basically a management agreement between the various parks.

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BreakersBoy
CP Reservations '00, '01

MF Drops: 10
SoB Bone-jarrings: 0

Chitown,
THere are four CF parks with hypers. CP has Magnum, VF has Wild Thing, WOF has Mamba, and DP has Steel Force.

There are three reasons why Cedar Fair concentrates on CP.

1.) Market size. CP and KBF have the largest market size in the chain. Therefore this is one reason why CP gets alot of attention.

2.) CP is FUN's flagship park.

3.) FUN is CP. FUN began with CP and it's identity is with CP.

If the FUN management felt that putting in a coaster at Valley Fair would be more effective than putting in a coaster at CP then they would. Why would they, because they have limited partners(shareholders) who demand the maximum dividend possible. If FUN management doesn't use the money in the most effective manner, then the share price of FUN will go down and investors will become unhapppy. If investors become too unhappy, then management loses their position. Judging from FUN's growth over the last decade, I think it's safe to say the FUN's management knows what it's doing.

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Do you really think profits would have been made if they had brought $25 million Millenium Force to a non metropolitan area such as Kansas City

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That's funny, WOF is in a more "metro region" than Cedar Point. What big town is Cedar Point "metro region" in? Oh yeah it's not. It's located on a pennisula, so that statement is incorrect.

If you would like to restate that as CP is in a higher traffic area or having larger cities to draw from, then yes you would be correct.

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C'mon Knott's brings in an average of 3.5 million guests a year

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They are also open year round. If WOF was open year round it would bring in approximately 2.7-3.0
million guests per year. Also realize that KBF is open almost EVERY DAY of the year.

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record year at WoF with like 1.2 million when Mamba debut

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Also realize that WOF was sliding in attendance. When HME was in charge of the park, the park had a constant attendence each year of around 1.1 million. Until 1998, there had not been a major installation since Monsoon. The two rides after Monsoon were Sea Dragon and Cyclone Sam's.

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THAT my friends is what they call SMART finance decisions.

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No that is called ROI

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The Hunt's family,with World's of Fun, who meant well, did not want to commit to the day to day operations of what a themer needs to survive.

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Mainly they were tired of paying liability costs.

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so be thankful that you have timberwolf and mamba

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Yes we are proud to have two highly rated coasters at our park, one that was rated #1 for awhile.

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It's not about distributing coasters like most people find as a fantasy, but big bucks are thrown into coasters and they can't just be built like candy houses.

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And no one said it was. The fact is, people are getting restless about coaster additions with the debt giant putting three or more coasters into a single park at a time. When the GP of coaster enthusiasts see this they wonder why their park is not getting that. Now the ones who have been around for awhile realize that the debt giant is not practicing wise business operations and that the good witch of the north company will come through for its parks as soon as the money becomes available.

Also for those who think there will not be a new coaster next year at WOF, please do not bother getting in the queue next year, so I can get on the ride faster.

D
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"Sit back and hold on tight, cause the Mamba is about to strike." *** This post was edited by Dustijn Hollon on 3/28/2001. ***

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kRaXLeRidAh said:
"Do you really think profits would have been made if they had brought $25 million Millenium Force to a non metropolitan area such as Kansas City"

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RIGHT! So they put it in the great Mega-opolis that is Sandusky! Please! KC (both of them) are way bigger than Sandusky could ever dream to be. I get your point, that Cedar Point is a great vacation destination. But let's think about it. They only get such great numbers and such recognition because of the great rides. If CP only had like 5 coasters no one outside of the general area would even care about the park. CP is a textbook example of "If you build it, they will come" (see WDW for another example!). I'm sure if MF was at ValleyFair or Worlds of Fun, it would still attract visitors...and would help establish an identity for the park. I'll holla.
lata,
jeremy

WoF used to be my home park untill I moved in 96, so I never got to go on Mamba. I wish they would pay more attention to it. No its not a Cedar Point, but they could at lest try to put a big attraction in every 4 years or so.

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Fear is just Weakness Leaving the Body. --coaster_fanatic

No one is stating that Sandusky is larger than Kansas City. What is being stated that the population within a 100 mile radius of CP is larger than the population near WoF. Consider the following cities near within a short driving distance of CP. Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, and Columbus. There is a much larger base for CP than WoF. This has also proven itself historically by attendance figures to the two parks, even before FUN took over.

I continue to believe that the main difference is competition. Over the last 10-12 years, Cedar Point has strived to maintain an edge over other regional major coaster parks: Kings Island and Kennywood. Now that Six Flags has turned Geauga Lake into a serious coaster park, I suspect that Cedar Fairs will focus even more attention and money on the Point. Knotts Berry farm is also in a comparatively competitive market, and receives new rides accordingly. With whom does WoF compete? People from the region are going to go to that park whether or not it has new rides, because... where the heck else are they going to go?

I attribute the pathetic dearth of decent coasters at SF Elitch Gardens (near which I now live) to the same factor.

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No one is stating that Sandusky is larger than Kansas City. What is being stated that the population within a 100 mile radius of CP is larger than the population near WoF

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that was not the original wording. The original wording stated that KC was a smaller metro area than that of where KBF and CP was.

Now for the people saying CF:LP has not added anything to WOF, let's go thro the history shall we. (thanks to UNWOF)

-1996
• Cedar Fair L.P. buys WOF & OOF from Hunt Midwest
• Cyclone Sam's is Added to Americana

-1996
• Detonator is Added to Americana
• The RipCord is Added to Americana

-1997
• Worlds of Fun Celebrates its 25th Anniversary
• Bearenstain Bear Country is Added
• Summer Spectacular Premiers in the Forum

-1998
• The Largest Addition to Date, Mamba is Added to Africa
• Octopus is reinstalled in Scandinavia
• The Scrambler is Moved to Americana

-1999
• Grand Prix Raceway added to Americana
• Coasters Midway Grill opens in Africa
• "Stax of Trax" debuts in the Moulin Rouge
• HalloWeekends debuts
• Hurricane Falls opens at OOF

-2000
• Boomerang is added to Africa
• The Rock opens in Americana

-2001
• Camp Snoopy is added
• Woodstock's Airmail is added
• Camp Bus is added

As you can see there has been significant improvements in the park since they took over in 1996. Not only have they added rides, but they also have fixed up the park...true there is still more to be done, but that is the same way with every park.


D
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"Sit back and hold on tight, cause the Mamba is about to strike."

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Little"B" said:
"There not bad off. But we got timber wolf in 89. Orient in like 80 i think. and mamba in 98. but thats a long time between each good coaster. Cedar Point expects something huge every other year almost."

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Wow. I had no idea that WoF got something decent every 9 years. Yeah, that's ridiculous. SF has lots more parks and they keep coasters coming at least every 5 years or so for most of them. I bet even Elitch gets coasters more frequently than that. I'll agree that Cedar Fair is really neglecting some of their parks.

Umm, StandupFan. Cedar Fair bought WoF in 96. Dustjin even stated that above. So, Cedar Fair had nothing to do with the park prior to that.
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Dayuum, Your HOT!