Cedar Fair to buy SFWoA

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Koaster King said:
Are the enthusiasts really happy that CF seriously has no really close competition now?

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Now? They never have. No one at Cedar Point, at least in marketing, ever felt that strongly about Geauga Lake or anything it was called in the last few years. The only thing they watched was pricing. In terms of what they could offer, they were not worried in the least at any time.

I'd go as far as to say that they could have cared less about the park until suddenly they could get it for a price that barely shows the worth of the land, let alone everything sitting on it.

I think the addition of the flyer and the wildlife side showed potential for competition, so I would think at least Wicked Twister came from that. Maybe? I'm just disappointed SF wouldn't sell for more. It's worth a lot more like you say.

-Danny

Wicked Twister came to Cedar Point because it's a great ride, fits beautifully in the location it is in and was needed to bring crowds to that midway.

The only SFWoA connection with the ride is that I heard some CP people rode Superman and liked the ride. It probably confirmed that they wanted one for CP.

As far as competition, Six Flags was way out to lunch. Remember that ad a couple of years ago that had a subtle slam against CP? You don't gain market share by slamming something many people in the area love. If a product can't stand up on its own, what serious competition can it offer?

I drive past CP to go to GL! ;)

I was wondering how GL ranks to the other CF parks in size/ # of rides?

I'm just wondering what to expect for 04 since the season starts in less than 2 months, then to 05 which will give them the off season to do some things. they have a lot to do in the next few weeks.

It's to bad SF didn't get SFWoA up to the standards of lets say SFGAm or SFOG.

If that was the case, CP would have considered SFWoA as a serious threat.

I was listening to a recording of the conference call. I really hope CF gets together with the local hotels in the Aurora area to address their concerns.

I've coined a few new terms. When speaking about both of the Ohio CF parks, it is now appropiate to refer to CP as the "West Side" and GL as the "East Side." Discuss.

I don't expect anyone to give SFWOA credit for doing anything in the amusement industry. It's fairly obvious that they came, they overstayed their welcome, and they sold out. Nothing more. Nothing less...

But they sure fooled me. I went to SFWOA 6 or 7 times in 4 years and CP 3 or 4 times. And it takes me an extra half an hour to get to SFWOA.

-Danny

The entire park is around the perimeter of Geauga Lake. It's a good sized park w/ room for expansion, esp. on the wildlife side of the park. With the animals going adios, it will leave room for the future. The Wild rides side of the park can be pretty tight on space from what I remember, it seemed the area where X-Flight, Superman, & Mind Eraser were at was the most wide open area on that side. From the end of Knight Flight all the way around to the edge of the Widlife side it's real tight on space. But all around I always loved the layout around the lake, it can be very scenic. But, that's my opinion.

Ok, can someone explain to me why it seems like 90% of you agree that nothing will ever be built again at CP and/or GL just because they don't have serious competition? What ever happened to building rides because you want to please your customers, or because you're an amusement park and you want to have the biggest and best thrills?

That and the complete turnaround of a lot of folks and what seems to be the basic public opinion from "cool, I'll give the place another shot" to either "No, I hate the place even more now cause its Cedar Fair" or "I hate Cedar Point now, I'm only going to GL"? Well, this used to be an interesting disucssion - held my attention til some very opinionated folks had to ruin the entire thread ...

I guess we can now officially scrap the slogan:

"So Big, So Close"

*Nothing* will be built again?? I don't think anyone ever said anything like that. But while SFO/SFWOA was here, Cedar Point built 3 major coasters in 4 years. Before that, it was less consistant with Magnum in 89, Mean Streak in 91, Raptor in 94, Mantis in 96, and MF in 2000. You think we'll see another major coaster in 2005? I'm not so sure about that. Will we see a major non-coaster, flat ride attraction? That would be nice at least. Do they need another major coaster? Not really. But I still think we would have seen bigger things for SFWOA if SF kept it or if another company had it. Just in the face of some type of competition. SFWOA was still getting a little over half the attendance of CP. Some people were going, so that's a little competition. If the people that were going were idiots, CP still wants money from the idiots, so they were in the same market as competition. I could probably find someone where a lot of people said "Magic Mountain isn't competing with CP. They're only really competing with SFWOA and parks in the same market" or something similar.

There's more to a lot of parks besides bigger and better thrills. In the end, they really want your money. Why? Because *Gasp* they're a business. They care about what you think and want you to come back, but the biggest reason is for your money. Every park that hasn't figured that out should take note. Make your customers leave happy (and safe) and they'll return.

I *don't* hate CP, CF, or GL. Can't anyone have a debate and conversation anymore? If it's not fun for you, leave or make it fun.

-Danny

im going to miss SFWoA....i always had a wonderful time when i visited that park....and thats all im going to say :(

Tim.....a devoted Six Flags fan

Time for bed, Danny...

Parks don't just compete with each other. They compete with all the other entertainment/leisure activities possible during our all-too-short summer. For example, we'll be spending a week at the beach in the Outer Banks this year (as we do every year) during which time we won't be visiting CP, GL or anything else (except maybe BGW). My mom lives on a lake, where we visit very frequently so the kids can swim and splash around. My mom's is closer and less crowded than Soak City, Boomerang Bay, or MiA's waterpark, so that's more lost potential visit time.

Fall saturdays are often good days to go, but I have Michigan football tickets, so that's 4-5 more days I'll be in Ann Arbor rather than Sandusky, Whitehall, or Aurora.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

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Koaster King said:
But while SFO/SFWOA was here, Cedar Point built 3 major coasters in 4 years. Before that, it was less consistant with Magnum in 89, Mean Streak in 91, Raptor in 94, Mantis in 96, and MF in 2000.

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Yes... less consistent. Just building the biggest coaster of its kind five times in just over a decade. Context, man. Context.

Jeff, I concur. Lets put this little debate to rest.

Brian, I know. I still was showing that SFWOA was indeed competition for them. Have fun on your trips. You should go to BGW by all means if you're in the area. I would never pass that park up and I've been craving to visit again since I last went in 99. It has still stayed my favorite park though as I haven't had an experience like that at a park since.

Olsor, I meant that CP built more record-breaking coasters in a shorter period of time when SF stepped in than in any other period that short in its history. People here even claimed that TTD was practically giving SF (MM and/or WOA) the middle finger when they added it. If they didn't feel competition there, they would have added something like a floorless, flyer, woodie, or even something more the size of Xcelerator. Maybe even a giant flat or water ride. Instead they built the tallest and fastest coaster in the world.

Anyways, when my friends are IMing me and saying I sound bitter and rude and that they know I'm not really like that, I know its about time to retire the character of Koaster King. He has run his course and now it's time to throw in the towel and hop onto the kinder, more gentler bandwagon Danny has been eagerly anticipating. RPGs are fun, but it's really tiring to keep playing so much. =p

The character and game is no longer profitable, has been poorly operating lately, and I frankly don't enjoy the King's level of poor service, mismanagement, verbal uncleanliness (bathroom humor is still *in*??). I have turned in my underpants and am ready for a new adventure. ;)

-Danny, wishing luck to his next character... himself

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Chitown said:

I was listening to a recording of the conference call. I really hope CF gets together with the local hotels in the Aurora area to address their concerns.

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Oh man. That was the whiniest bunch of hotel representatives ever. I listened to it live so forgive me if my memory has it wrong, but the one caller wonking about how they already printed promotional material sounded like they expected a reimbursement from Cedar Fair or something.

The other one that stood out was the caller who claimed 80% of their Memorial Day to Labor Day business was directly from being a SFWOA preferred hotel (or travel partner or whatever) - what!?

80% of their summer business is directly due to SFWOA!? (not just SFWOA visitors, but directly from being listed as a 'preferred' hotel of SFWOA)

I don't buy it for a second and if it is true - that's horrible business. You don't live and die by somebody else's success. For a hotel to rely on such a large percentage of their business to come that way is ludicrous.

I was thinking over the possibility of Bermuda Triangle and Pirates being kept open. It was strange to see a Six Flag's park have those attractions, and now passing them on again to yet another company will seem even stranger. Just like Universal Japan having Peanuts characters. Sometimes the business world produces strange things. :)

Also, great idea above RE: making a Camp Snoopy area out of part of the Wildlife section. I was thinking along the same lines and it would free up space in the old kiddie land for new Cedar Fair attractions. An S&S tower would go nicely in that area for example. And I am sure Cedar Fair will never build another Perilous Plunge, but how cool would it be to see a ride like that positioned in such a way that it splashdowns into the lake? I think that would be way cool. Most of all I hope some sort of mini-hyper can be built here. This park could really use a ride like that.

That being said...all those things might not be the best course of action here. There has to be some unique stuff. GL can't have copies of all the usual Cedar Point attractions and be sucessful when the real deal is right up the road. And as such, it may prove to be more of a challange then Cedar Fair realizes. They will have to think differently about this park then any other in their chain. And that can be hard when you're used to doing things a certain way.

It will be interesting!

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That was the whiniest bunch of hotel representatives ever.

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They didn't sound whiny to me. They sounded panicked. On the other hand, I'm sure it would have been better for them had the sale gone through in November, but it wasn't their $145M, was it?