Cedar Fair to buy SFWoA

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Koaster King said:

I've seen poor service at Six Flags, Paramount, Cedar Fair, Universal, even Disney parks. It doesn't happen all the time and most people here seem to just be following people and saying they have "bad service" just because its the cool thing to say or something. I've been 6 times in the last 3 years and never had problems and I'll stick with what I know unless there's clear factual information as to why something went wrong.

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You know, I actually have to agree a bit about the whole "SF = bad service" bandwagon. Things get started and everybody jumps on just to be part of something.

However, we're not talking SF as a whole here - we're talking SFWOA in particular and sadly their service, operation and overall park experience were WAY below the industry standard.

Yes, we've all had random "bad experiences" at parks throught the various chains, but (and I can only speak from single visits in the 2001 and 2002 seasons) the entire SFWOA visit was unpleasurable. This is exactly the reason I only made single visits in 2001 and 2002. It sucked the first time. I gave a second chance. It still sucked. I'm not going to waste my time anymore.

You speak from experience, but other do to. My experiences:

Just for reference - I've been going to CP regularly for 10 years now. I practically lived at Dorney in 2002 & 2003 and I visited Knott's last year.

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I guess employee idiocy at Cedar Fair parks isn't a problem though unless they work at Six Flags parks. Cedar Fair can do no wrong.

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No, Cedar Fair seems to be (in general) better at doing no wrong. Cedar Fair employees on the whole have been more knowledgable, helpful, polite and interested than SFWOA's ever were. I met people who enjoyed their jobs, were eager to help and seemed to be concerned about the guest experience. At SFWOA I ran into a bunch of workers who seems to be wasting time for a paycheck. Again, this is just SFWOA. Factor in the entire SF chain and the gap closes considerably, but it's still not the same level as the CF, Busch or Paramount parks.

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That's not one-train operation. They're just putting them through so fast you're only seeing one.

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Ummm, ok. I've seen one train operation at CF parks and I've seen it at SF parks. The difference is that once the wait time reaches a certain point CF (and I've seen it happen at other parks too including SF parks) will add a train. At SFWOA we were finding 30 minute waits with one train oeration. A maintenance/cost cutting measure to be sure, but one that affects the experience considerably. Same as before - factor in the entire SF chain and it gets better in comparison.

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That's not trash. It's part of the normal "Cedar Fair theming".

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Again, in my experience, CF parks are among the cleanest around. Without question SFWOA in 2001 was a pigsty. The dirtiest park I've ever been to. A close second is Sesame Place (Busch). Followed by the standard disclaimer of "factor in all the SF parks..."

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And I'm not just a SF fanboy. I won't even talk about what has happened at SFKK and SFNE before.

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And I don't think I'm a CF fanboy. I just know what I like and CF has delivered with little error. Just to show how personal experience can differ - my one trip to SFNE left me with the impression that's it one of the best in the chain. (and one that would be responsible for pulling up the entire SF average)

I just think there's too many people echoing these thoughts on SFWOA for it to be as petty as "bashing" - lots of people have visited and had a worse than good time.

The excitement here for me (and others I presume) is that CF's general track record vs SFWOA's gives one hope for a park we'd all love to start visiting again.

*** Edited 3/11/2004 6:55:29 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

For those who think SF parks can't get it right, I encourage a visit to SFFT.

Random GL thoughts:

- CF disposes with GL's animal care budget, the print and television ad budget for all markets East of Cleveland and says, "Look unitholders! We saved money!"

- They institute strict price controls (i.e. those damn potty paper rolls instead of individual napkins at food stands) and roll in the typical CP cuisine

-Cue the schmaltzy 'family' music! Just great if you're over 30, but otherwise...

- They replace the upper management, hoist Damocles' sword above the existing middle management staff and behold! They're efficient!

- Duck! Here comes a Coasters restaurant!

- Staffing: In a recession? Problem? What problem?

My personal screw-the-rest-of-you dream for GL: That it becomes the CP of waterparks with MasterBlasters, Tornados and Royal Flushes aplenty. Meanwhile CP expands the indoor waterpark, phases out Soak City and uses the land for more CoasterDork stuff.

-'Playa

Danny doesn't get that it's not about what companies tend to do or who is a fanboy. He just likes to talk in circles about what he likes as the basis for defending a crappy business.

If the wildlife side was such a hit, where were the people? Certainly I didn't do a survey or anything, but it was pretty clear to me that side of the park never, ever met most guests' expectations, which were set pretty high by Busch.

Don't take my word for it as a fanboy. If Six Flags was doing anything right they wouldn't have tanked the business and they'd still be owning it and it would be a cash cow. That has nothing to do with Cedar Fair or my opinion, them be the facts my friend. There's nothing there to dispute, it's as certain as death and taxes.

And would I be happy if some new owner took out my favorite attractions? Of course, but that's not what's happening here. (In fact, we don't know if Six Flags refused to sell the animals, CF didn't want them, or some combination of the two, but I bet it's more the latter.) My expectation is that I'll get several trains on The Ride Formerly Known as Batman: Knight Flight and that they'll replace the square wheels. Even better, two trains on Villain will mean the real gem at that park will finally get to shine, and you won't have to wait 30 minutes for it. O glory days!

A similar comparison would be Drachen Fire's removal from BGW. I personally loved the ride, and I don't understand why people complained about it, but I cannot argue that it flat-out did not attract riders. It was not a good investment for the park if it was a walk-on even on crowded weekends.

My best guess is that SF said they wanted to keep the dolphins and the whale and CF said well then, keep them all. As I said earlier if Six Flags couldn't get a mate for Shouka then what makes anyone think Cedar Fair could get 2 whales plus a few dolphins?

The main attraction at Sea World always was Shamu. Sure, the 3D movie was nice and the Penguin encounter was nice but people went to Sea World to see Shamu. You need only look at the Shamu stadium for every single show of every day of every season.

By selling WoA, Six Flags finally admitted what most of us knew already...they couldn't get their act together after biting off more than they could chew.

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CoastaPlaya said:

My personal screw-the-rest-of-you dream for GL: That it becomes the CP of waterparks with MasterBlasters, Tornados and Royal Flushes aplenty. Meanwhile CP expands the indoor waterpark, phases out Soak City and uses the land for more CoasterDork stuff.

-'Playa

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Screw me? No, that sounds like one hell of an idea. Tear down the current waterpark at GL and use that land to transplant the flats from the old wildlife side. Now make that entire side a huge water park, incorporating the lake. Now that is an idea I like. And if soak city could be used for more rides, YES! That doesn't sound like a screw-the-rest-of-you but rather screw Six Flags.

Schlitterbahn Ohio, in deed if not name?

That sounds like lots of fun.

CPlaya- I'm ducking now because the park already has the "JukeBox Cafe". All CF has to do to this Fifties-themed establishment is slap on a new sign that says "Coasters" (well, maybe give the place a thorough cleaning and drop a few roach bombs in there) and voila! A "new" restaurant.

ray p.

I think CF doesn’t GL want as big of draw as they do in 2005. A lot of people know the difference and a lot of families own Cedar Point passes, if they were accepted at GL next year there would be a big jump in attendance for a park not ready to handle those crowds. I think CF will take care of the things that make your visit better and what makes you come back. I could see the WL side opening up maybe in a couple years. They have very little time a lot to do they want to succeed and what there best at is running amusement parks. Once the amusement park is up to CF quality I could see them looking into hiring people that know how to take care of the animals and if they can purchase some animals in a couple years because it would be great for marketing and bring a lot of money. But only after what they do best is up to a high standard and running smoothly.

I wouldn't talk in circles if people were listening and responding to what I said the first time. Thanks Gonch for responding directly. :)

I know we've all had different experiences and I accept yours, but I don't think you accept mine. A lot of people did have a great time in the park in 2003 as I showed you guys with the trip report comments in a SFWOA last year. Not everyone hates the park, loves it, thinks its trashy, thinks its fun,... I don't know if you guys have ever been to SFGAm or SFOG, but they definitely do some things right and are comparable to CP (besides DV operations).

I wouldn't defend a crappy business if I didn't have fun or like what was going on when I visited. That would be really stupid, don't you think? I believe that you guys (Jeff and Gonch) had not-so-great times and a time when I went in 2002, I thought the park was a joke with some of the employees messing around and half a dozen rides closed. I went back three times in 2003 though to support the park because I thought business was shaping up. One ride was closed the first two times I went in the season and three rides were closed the third time (SUE, Silver Bullet, Texas Tornado), but I was aware that they would be closed. I didn't get pissy when WT or TTD were closed or had a lot of breakdowns when I went to CP in 2002 and 2003.

I was looking through my SFWOA pictures yesterday and noticed *no* trash on the ground and trashcans in every single picture where a shot was taken of a midway area. The shows on the Wildlife side were *packed* last year and it seemed twice as busy as 2002 at all times. When I went in 02, it was almost haunting how much of a ghost town the Wildlife side was. But I took my parents up in 2003 once and met some friends another time and they loved it. If they just had the Wild Rides side, my parents wouldn't be interested in going. Unique things like that are something I look for at a park and SFWOA got real bonus points for executing everything so well over there IMO. I just picture the Wild Rides side 2004 by itself as something like SFNE minus Superman, which I'm not a big fan of at all. I picture improvement over the next few years, but I think if its fair that you guys have had your reasons for not wanting to visit in 2003 and "SFWOA 2004", then I would have my reasons not to visit on what I see happening. 2005 and on will depend on what they do to the park.

Villain (maybe not the third time I went?) and Batman both ran two trains when I went all three times in 03 and neither had a wait. With the "lack of crowds" if there was one (I prefer that to the constipated midways at other parks), I'm happy for SF for getting out. But I know how excited everyone else would be if SF went under and closed all of their parks (at least that's how it sounds from some of these people), so maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut.

-Danny *** Edited 3/11/2004 7:53:16 PM UTC by Koaster King***

The enthusiasm (or lack thereof) from the enthusiast crowd toward SFWoA isn't the reason they had to sell that park.

If everything were so wonderful there wouldn't have been a sale. People generally don't sell what they are happy with, no?

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Gemini said:
GEE AW GA

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That could still be mispronounced. You need to specify that the GEE is actually JEE as in JEEP, and the accent is on the AW.

jee AW guh

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Koaster King said:
I know we've all had different experiences and I accept yours, but I don't think you accept mine... I wouldn't defend a crappy business if I didn't have fun or like what was going on when I visited.

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Does that change the reality of the business failure? Nope... that was my point.

I accept and know SFWOA was a business failure, which had more to do with the beginnings of the "new park" in 2001 with some of their bad first impressions and odd and sometimes bad marketing techniques, but what the park did offer by 2003 was something I had never seen in from a seasonal park in the amusement industry and I'm just sad to see it go. I'm not sure if you would have felt the same way if you went in 2003 or even if you like animals and the wildlife side, but I thought it had a lot going for it. I'm not defending it being a failure, because clearly it was. I'm defending that the park finally had it's head in the right place in 2003 and it sounded like for 2004 with what they announced at NCC, but it was too late to do something productive and turn it away in a big postive way in the next half a decade. I know these things.

-Danny

I didn't know there was any other pronunciation for GEE besides 'jE.

Speaking of business failure, look at it this way:

GL did just fine for over 100 years there.

Sea World did the same for more than 30 years.

Six Flags couldn't make it work for 4 years.

That puts a lot of perspective on how big of a problem they had on their hands.

I don't know Gonch. I mean, I doubt SF was just looking for someone to buy the park. Don't you think CF was the one that approached them? I didn't see SF just putting the park up for sale even in the next decade, but if someone else was interested and it worked for SF as a business on the whole to take that money, they should have and did do so.

I'm sorry I had this reaction to CF's decision not to have the wildlife side so far and if any other company removed that and were going to replace it with "We don't know yet", I would be upset as well. Like I said, if the Wildlife side was half of the reason I visited, would you expect me to like the park just as much if it was gone? Should I expect you to like Dorney as much if they removed the waterpark or like Hershey as much if they removed Midway America or Cedar Point if they removed the right half of the park (MF, Raptor, Wildcat, BS, etc.)? Maybe I'm really overthinking it and should just wait to see what CF finally says their plans are for the future.

-Danny

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Gemini said:
I didn't know there was any other pronunciation for GEE besides 'jE.

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Try the G in Guess for example...

All I know is that I grew up here, and I have known how to pronounce Geauga since I was very young. All through school we were always taught to sound it out as Gee aw ga. So, thats how I sound it out on paper (or internet message board) whenever anyone asks me how it sounds.

Interesting fact: Geauga County got its name from the Mound Builder Indians. Geauga is Indian for raccoon, which is still very abundant in the county. *** Edited 3/11/2004 8:44:33 PM UTC by Sarah Jackson***