Cedar Fair to buy SFWoA

What I can see happening is instead of accepting CP passes at GL and vice versa, outside passes will be eligible for a deep discounted ticket, say $10. That way you still reap some of the benefits of the season pass, and the park isn't "giving away the gate" completely.

Bottom line: the sale is just 24 hours old and the things presented yesterday were just initial plans. There are still two months from now to opening. Things could still change.

Tambo and rollocoast bring up a very good question. What about the SF passes that have already been processed? Will SF still accept them? I would think that they would since they've been processed. Let's face it - most of bought SFWoA passes not for SFWoA but for the rest of the chain.

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ShiveringTim said:
. Let's face it - most of bought SFWoA passes not for SFWoA but for the rest of the chain.

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Therein lies the problem, the whole core idea of a season pass is to get one admission into the park listed on the pass for the whole season. The idea of reciprocity is one to reward the casual user who may have decided to vacation in a location where there is another park. I doubt it was intended to be a cheap way for enthusiasts to go around the country riding roller coasters without having to pay admissions fees over and over again.

From a purely business standpoint, the companies have to work with the base assumption that a season pass was bought for the use of that park alone. I do not think they can just determine what someone's true intentions were with the pass.

Does anyone know when the new Geauga Lake web site will be up and running?

This is the one thing most people are forgetting and I believe it is THE most significant issue.

Cedar Fair doesn't need to impress the people that have continued to go to Geauga Lake over the years. Cedar Fair is coming in to make a case for all the people who have stopped coming to Geauga Lake over the years.

Six Flags didn't have trouble because of Season Pass issues. Six Flags had troubles because they couldn't get people to come or to return if they visited once.

Finally, Six Flags spent a lot of money and time adding spoilers, sound systems, sun roofs, etc to their car but they never fixed the engine. I guarantee you that the engine is the FIRST thing Cedar Fair is going to look at.

Hopefully none of the rides will get removed and shipped to any of the other CF parks. Yeah, with having two impluse coaster almost right next to each other (S:UE and WT), be good for CF to own the worlds 1st impluse coaster and have the worlds fastest and tallest impluse coaster. Way would they wanted to remove it when Intamin sent in new supports for both spikes? Hmmm.

As far as the season pass topic goes, least they're giving to the option of either refund or trading it in for a GL pass. Just wondering if the same thing will imply to the people that just bought season pass vouchers. With the old SFWoA processing date coming up in about a couple of weeks, hopefully we'll learn more about what will happen. Plus, will they offer the parking pass sticket this year as well? That was a gold mine for SFWoA I thought.

Maybe a deal where if you have a CP season pass you get one admit to GL.
Personally I think CF is smart not to honor CP passes at GL so as not to have a situation like the a couple years back when SFO was over crowded and guest experience took a nose dive.

Whahoo skipper has the statement I'm concerned about.

I don't think this is going to be like SFO opening day...more like SFWoA opening day.

SOOooo many people went in expecting "world Class" Sea World, and they found A LOT of stingrays. That half of the park upset MANY people who have been there. They had expectations. They weren't met, and SFWoA was trying to get them back, and just starting to succeed at it.

Now opening day for Geauga Lake is coming up. Just yesterday it seems that all the peeps I've talked to (quite a few), seem to be expecting Cedar Point atmosphere over night. People were saying things like,"Finally! We'll get some huge coasters around here."

I just see a lot of people going to the park, seeing half a product (especially if they keep the price around $40) and say, "That was pointless. Bring back SF!" With that previous statement is why I think CF does not what their Season Pass to be excepted at GL this year...because they know people will be disapointed. And that is a huge risk to take for loyal customers.

I can understand getting rid of the aquatic stadiums, but to get rid of some of the smaller attractions (ie. very nice aquarium, shark attack, etc) all because they say they don't have expertise in running an animal park? Then go higher someone from a very well known zoo who does.

I don't think people are going to be expecting an old Geauga Lake feel. I think they are going to be expecting a Geauga Lake with Cedar Point rides.

Hopefully CF won't compare this park with MiA. That's like saying Wyandot Lake and SFWoA are in the same bracket.

I do have faith in CF in the long run, no doubt. But I am very worried for the first 4 years and seeing the same thing that happened with SFWoA.

Yes, I know it was a lot with customer service, and that played a HUGE role in it. But if people get upset, and start saying things, it can snowball very quickly. I hope CF can play this Geauga Lake change over very well.

"The Future of Roller Coasters"
-RollerCoasterGod
http://OhioThemeParks.com

Keeping the wildlife side open wasn't an option. Six Flags was taking the animals...period. I am quite certain it wouldn't have been possible to gather up animals to fill all of the attractions in a month or so. They are going to have enough problems getting signage, uniforms, paper products and a zillion other little things we aren't thinking about switched over.

Obviously the wildlife side wasn't really doing any kind of barnstorming business with Six Flags at the helm. I don't know how Cedar Fair could have corrected that, even if they could have possilby acquired animals. It would have been impossible for them to get a killer whale, Six Flags couldn't even get a mate for the one they had.

Without animals on that side of the park it is hard to justify keeping it open for food stands and merchandise shops, don't you think?

Be like deja vu all over again.

God, I don't know who you talk to, but I was shocked at the non-enthusiast response I've seen so far.

At volleyball practice last night, some of my parents applauded the deal when they realized that Cedar Fair was the company that owned Cedar Point. Joe Blow Clevelander knows the difference, and I've been saying this for years. They don't need to be enthusiasts to see the difference in the way the parks were run.

Even the "man on the street" interviews I saw on TV last night were enthusiastic, much more so than when SF bought the SeaWorld property.

Everyone keeps talking about what "people" know. People aren't stupid, and that's why "people" have visited the park in fewer and fewer numbers every year.

I don't think anyone expects a perfect and easy transition, but the changes we can all be sure will be more than just lip service.

The general public typically isn't concerned that their season pass gets them into other parks. Mostly it is just a marketing gimmick. The GP doesn't tend to make a special trip to a park in the chain since their pass allows them to do so, unlike enthusiasts who would make special trips to other parks in the chain. It doesn't really add to the bottom line when a chain offers that perk.

This whole deal is good for the industry as a whole. We went through the consolidation of parks in the 90's and it led to a lot issues. Manufactures went out of business, parks declined in quality, attendance went down, capital investment and innovation went down.

CF is right to get back to the amusement park days of Geauga Lake. Theming really isn't critical and costs a lot of $$. I can see CF closing down completely the animal side of the park, selling off some of the land and doing something with adding a resort to that side of the property. Hotels on the lake with an indoor waterpark. Would be a great weekend getaway for those in Cleveland & Columbus.

SF put a ton of capital into SFWOA and didn't get much attendance so CF won't have to add much in the way of large rides for a few years. They'll probalbly concentrate on marketing the park, rebranding, and really doing some good PR to get the public to the park. And since they aren't paying that much for the park, they don't need to worry about hitting the attendance targets SF thought they could do.

One of the problems with all of this SF branding has diluted the SF name. For me, when I think of SF, I always expeceted a level like SFOT or SFOG, or even SFGreatAdventure. Not SFWOA or SFKK or others. It is just not the same. And for people that have been to one of the larger SF parks, they can be disappointed by the newer properties.

Just some of my thoughts

"Transition" is a word that has been used a LOT since the park became Six Flags Ohio back in 2000. The end of the 1999 season was definitely one of "transition" as the old Geauga Lake was slowly being leveled to make way for the SFO era. I remember attending during Fright Fest that year and seeing the old Wave being bulldozed, the old Rainbow Island kiddieland scrapped and some of the older rides being taken out as well (Rotor, Flying Scooters, etc.) 2000 was a "transition" year as the park rushed to get all of the new attractions open throughout the season (to SF's credit, having 3 major coasters ready by Opening Day was amazing). There were signs of construction everywhere and the park had an "unfinished" feel to it. 2001 was the biggest "transition" year of all as the park struggled to combine SFO with the old Sea World. It almost seems like the only consistent things you could count on each year at Six Flags were inconsistency and "transition". Now, 2004 rolls around and we get yet another "transition" year. Three years of having 2 parks is gone and we're "back to basics". I think many guests were getting tired of the constant SF "transition"... and while this too will be another of those years, it may be the last one we have to worry about. CF knows what they are doing and will make GL a great place for the families of Northeast Ohio.

I have had a full night to think about this now and being a lifelong fan of the park and growing up with GL and Sea World, I am still not sure what to think. At first I was pretty bummed that the animal attractions were closing... but after thinking about it, I realized that when SF took over, the quality was never quite as good as it was when it was Sea World. While I marked out big time for the return of a killer whale... the show itself basically was a "work in progress". Shouka never seemed to adapt to her new home and the show seemed very rushed and ad-libbed. It was always funny sitting for 5 minutes or so while Shouka swam around the tank while the trainers kept trying to get her to jump or "exhibit a behavior". The tanks in the aquariums all looked like they could use a good cleaning. And half of the buildings were left unused. The appearance of rides on the Life side was a nice touch, but not enough to bring people back I guess. So after much thinking, I guess losing the Life side isn't as big of a deal as I first made it out to be. I usually spent most of my time on the Rides side anyway. I remember when I was a kid and going to Sea World, I would stare across the lake wishing I was over there riding GL's 4 coasters. If CF is committed to making Geauga Lake work, we'll see new attractions in the future... perhaps even ones that aren't at CP to make things different. A Chance/Morgan Revolution, a Zamperla Hawk 48, heck, even a Zamperla Disk-O would make a nice addition... as would the aforementioned S&S Towers and hyper coaster.

OK, I've rambled incoherently enough this morning and have to get to a meeting at 10:00. I guess in summary I'm saying that after some initial depression, I think this is a good move for Cedar Fair. It'll be nice to have Geauga Lake back... and I'm looking forward to the future and seeing CF make the park that I loved as a kid a place that NE Ohioans will enjoy visiting without having to worry about more "transition".

ray p.

I never said anyone hated the deal. If you read the post it talks about how people are VERY happy. That's why I'm comparing it to SFWoA when they bought Sea World. People were VERY happy. I just think those happy people are going to VERY upset if they go this year. Just like the first year of SFWoA.

I also don't think they should keept the Wild Life side open at all if there is no animals over there.

I don't buy the excuse that "We don't know how to run an animal park." There are upteen hundred Zoo's in this world with people that know how. They should have bought the animals also.

Not to mention I remember how upset some people here and a few in NOhio were when SF had to let go of some of the Sea World Workers...and now how many people are being let go? And since it's CF no one seems to mind?

Personally I think it would have been a HECK of a lot easier at keeping the the WILD LIFE side open and closing the Wild Rides side for 2004. Then you have two totally different park experiences for people and you can remodel the rides in the mean time. To me that makes a lot more sense then what they are trying to do.

I'm all for this deal, along with everyone else. I just don't want to go through Deja Vu again.

"The Future of Roller Coasters"
-RollerCoasteGod
http://OhioThemeParks.com

Shawn,

I particularly agree with your last paragraph and I said that way back when Six Flags started putting the flags out in front of parks like Kentucky Kingdom, Elitch Gardens, WoA, etc.

I had a cousin tell me once that he visited Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom and would never go to a Six Flags again. Is that really fair to Magic Mountain, Over Georgia, etc?

And, for the umpteenth time...the animals staying in the wildlife side WASN'T AN OPTION. Six Flags is taking them to their other parks. How in the world could Cedar Fair acquire all of those animals in a month and a half...even if they wanted to? *** Edited 3/11/2004 3:06:38 PM UTC by wahoo skipper***

I don't think it's "we don't know how to run an animal park" (although there is much more to it than simply hiring someone who has experience running a zoo) ... I think it's more "that's not what we do."

Cedar Fair operates amusement parks and that operation standard is what has made them what they are today. There's no reason for them to get into the animal side of things.

*** Edited 3/11/2004 3:15:56 PM UTC by Gemini***

Ok, my bad on the earlier Disney comment, I thought there wasn't a pass - maybe there's something else they don't have that I'm thinking of ...

Ok, regardless, with SF vs. CF in place as park management, as Jeff said, people can figure out that "Cedar Fair" means Cedar Point. Six Flags was this big flashy new guy - if anyone's seen Mystery, Alaska, its like the people coming in to "modernize" the town (and I'm sure you've all seen movies or TV shows like that). Sure the big corporate giant seems to offer good things, but usually, their product sterlizes things and you lose your own identity.

With CF coming in, to most people, its like the resurgance of a "Mom and Pop" store - the character coming back to a place, a company that although quite large, still is born and bred locally, and has a great reputation with the locals. Familiarity is good to people, that's what's gonna bring the people in. They know its a good product, but for those that are opposed to corporate giant stores:

Super Wal Mart offers Cheerios and you swear them off cause they come from Wal Mart, even though you like Cheerios. Now, here comes your next door neighbor who owns a few stores in other towns, but not nearly as many as Wal Mart, and he buys out Wal Mart's building and offers those same Cheerios - will you buy them now that your neighbor offers them and the money's staying somewhat close to home with someone you're a little more willing to trust? For most people, I'd say the answer's yes.

Many people seem to be assuming that SFI was unwiling to include the animals as part of the deal. I suspect that it is equally likely that CF didn't want them.

For the marketing campaign this season:

"Come to Geauga Lake- now run by the folks who brought you Cedar Point!"

Good idea or bad idea? Will the CP/GL folks resort to that? Will we see joint ads?

No major park chain has owned two parks with a similar target demographic and market area that have been so close together before (aside from Disney, but those parks are a different breed). This is really new ground here. How will that affect marketing, especially?

I guess that depends on whether permitting for animals goes with the location or the business.

Getting Shouka was no picnic for Six Flags so the fact that they finally did get her might have been incentive enough for them to keep her and take her to a park where they could breed her.

Same is likely true with the dolphins. Unless you are breeding these days I don't think you can acquire dolphins without going through a quagmire of hurdles.

I think it would be foolish to permanently close or sell the lifeside of the park . There is so much attraction potential there. The stadiums there could house many diffrent kind of shows. The gardens there were/are a nice respite. I am saddened that there will be no more animal attractions. Again Im not looking for killer whales or swimming with the dolphins. But the smaller bird/reptile/ and the marine exhibits will be sorely missed. They were great! They renergized my batteries and my soul alittle bit. I had enjoyed them and so did many of my family and friends. I do hope CF will develope this part of the park. I'm sure they will, to keep within that sense of "family park". Again I think it would be unwise not too, IMHO.
I do wonder if there would be any ride swapping ? SFWOA was Building up a nice flat ride collection and they have some good coasters. ( tho it would be cool if CF would move BKF, Villan, Xflight to CP )
Im not sure but was there any mention of the water park being a seperate charge like soak city ?
I am SO looking forward to the changes..
with the employee training, maintenance of rides, maintenance of the park in general.
I know 2004 wont be perfect..but I think it will be better than it has ever been